Tonewood Choices Affect Tone: Proved?

[edwardofhuncote]

It all matters.


I never get into these discussions elsewhere, because I don't like to argue for what I already believe, quite firmly. I'm not going to change my mind until my ears tell me to. That, and there's always some guy who want to convince me a cardboard box guitar is just as good. And I'm cool with that... go 'head.


What Bill said. It was a hard thing to accept, because I had played guitar with a thick, hard pick since... forever, (thanks to Norman Blake and Tony Rice, et al...) but as I tried to expand and grow into an electric guitar player, it didn't work. No matter what I did, it didn't sound like I wanted it to, so I had to adapt. A lighter pick was required for the much lighter gauge strings. Not to mention the lighter touch. So, it was not only the instrument, but accessories, and the user being familiar with the operational limits of the tools. I have also learned, even though I am not a fingerstyle player, that I can pull double and triple-stops with free fingers, while plucking. Could have been doing this all along, but never needed to. Point being, that was a whole new sound I could access and now having to plug in. And... all this directly affects how the controls are set on the instrument. And the amp. What a loop.


My Dad used to repeat often about building our banjos; [paraphrasing] that it was most important that nothing be in a bind, to set the instrument up 'neutral'. Everything should fit together and be flush and plumb, nothing force-fit or sloppy. A sloppy neck-to-shell joint absolutely kills one, no sustain, no ring. If I heard this once I heard it a thousand times. I think it's directly related to why the neck-through construction of an Alembic supports sustain so well... it eliminates ways for sustain to be diminished.

I like Jimmy's analysis. My two Alembic 5-strings are built on each other's specs, on purpose. 32" medium-scale, 3 purpleheart laminates in a maple beam, mahogany body core, maple faces, a fretted one fretless, both profiled alike. Electronically, very similar too. The Custom has a couple extras, but essentially the same core V/P/F/Q-3 set. They came out sounding close enough. Yeah, there's some differences, but subtle enough that I doubt if anyone but me notices. If they notice anything, it's my sketchy intonation on the fretless.

I'd have to say, I still sound like me on either one... and that was precisely the idea - so I could switch between the two of them interchangeably.

[rv_bass]

I’ll just add, it’s a system of sound from fingers (or pick) to speakers and everything in between. 

[rv_bass]

I have a couple of basses with various wood combinations.  So, I recorded each one unplugged thinking I would be hearing the influence of the woods resonating the sound acoustically.  I recorded them with an iPhone.

The Alembics are all Series basses with the same brass hardware and sustain blocks, except the teak-oak, koa-birch, and zebra-koa ones that have wooden tail pieces capped with a brass plate. The koa-birch is fretless. The non-Alembics are all short scale. The long scales are all strung with Labella low tension flats.  The short scales are strung with Pyramid gold flats. 

My first impression is that Jimmy is right, they all sound like me

https://app.box.com/s/oyw4bg7iiback927s25r2spyfzfspz91

Next I will record them plugged in to see if the woods and electronics have a noticeable effect on the sound.

[gearhed289]

I would vote for the #1 thing that makes any electric instrument sound as is does is YOU.  Your hands, the way you strike the string, even the way you hold the string to the fret.
Jimmy J

I should have prefaced my comments with this, but yeah, agree 100%.

[Greywolf]

I've been a Luthier for 4 decades , every piece of wood has a different tone.  The difference is more noticeable in semi hollow and hollow body instruments where the wood has a chance to resonate a bit more than the sandwich method.   The Janka hardness scale is  a good reference point for density .  I've experimented with different woods and combinations for years.  PRS has a nice TED talk on this .

[bigredbass]

I learned that give me just about any bass and any amp, about 5 minutes to twist knobs and feel my way around, and I'm going to sound like me. 

Granted, I sound like a way better me on an Alembic and a serious rig, but gimme a Squier and a Peavey amp, it's still me.  Sure I can hear some differences in some axes (an all African hardwood Warwick DEFINITELY sounds like an all African hardwood Warwick, and Fenders always sound like alder and maple, but past that, who knows?), but I believe right down to a molecular level, musicians have some random chromosome that makes each individual shoot for that 'you' sound that's unique to your own perception.

But then, the eternal question:  What IF the clue to the Alembic tone is all the feet of glue in the laminate joints? ? ? ?  To quote a famous musician, HAH!

[Greywolf]

One thing I've told several clients and students over the years, no matter what I build , or you play ..you will always sound like you. That's a blessing , instruments if we make them right will just allow the talent of the artist to shine through .  The better the instrument , the less impediment to getting what is in the soul out in the air .

[pauldo]

To echo off of Joey and James - we do sound like Us. 
And Us (at least for me) is an amalgam of bassists that I have listened to before...

[rv_bass]

To echo off of Joey and James - we do sound like Us. 
And Us (at least for me) is an amalgam of bassists that I have listened to before...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together... 

[lbpesq]

To echo off of Joey and James - we do sound like Us. 
And Us (at least for me) is an amalgam of bassists that I have listened to before...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together... 

Ahh, but the question remains:  Who is the egg man?

hehehehe

Bill, tgo

[goran]

This is quite interesting, at the end it is more about the player and experience than anything else... quite fun to watch

[pauldo]

To echo off of Joey and James - we do sound like Us. 
And Us (at least for me) is an amalgam of bassists that I have listened to before...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together... 

Ahh, but the question remains:  Who is the egg man?

hehehehe

Bill, tgo

No idea on the Eggman - if we look through the bent back tulips it will reveal who the Walrus is  :-)

[hammer]

I have friend and fellow cross country ski coach from Northfield Mn, Dave Folland. Dave’s full time job is making violins, violas, cellos, and one could probably get him to build a bass if one had the money. Dave’s instruments are highly sought after and played by professionals from around the world. Starting price for a basic violin is $35,000-38,000. For a cello is $75,000. I’ve never asked him about the cost of an upright cause when you can’t afford the little violin it would be pretty foolish to ask about something thats so much bigger. Now Dave of course is building acoustic instruments but it’s surprising how many are requested with pick ups nowadays. He once told me that he returns 98% of the wood he orders for his instruments and of course this is from specialty suppliers. Although I don’t understand the process, he’s told me that when selecting wood, he always wants to know not only where the wood came from (He prefers woods from Central Europe and often uses Yugoslavian maple), but exactly when it was cut as well as the age of the tree when it was cut. Apparently changes in the weather that occur when a tree is growing can affect not only growth rates but its density. He checks for optimal density through running an electrical current through pieces of wood and has said that he often soaks some of his woods in water before using them and only uses those that don’t produce cracks when they dry


He specializes in not only making instruments for individual musicians but matched sets for trios and quartets because both the woods and his carving of them can have such a significant effect on how instruments sound when they are played together.


Not an electric guitar or bass but I’m sure Dave would argue that while the artistry involved in making a string instrument, including specific tricks violin makers use when finishing their works of art, make a difference, if you don’t start out with the right raw materials nothing else will matter.


Follandviolins.com

[edwardofhuncote]

"He specializes in not only making instruments for individual musicians but matched sets for trios and quartets because both the woods and his carving of them can have such a significant effect on how instruments sound when they are played together. "

Y'all let that soak in for a while...

[jazzyvee]

Personally, and can hear the differences in sound of my alembics but I don't kid myself that i can distinguish the differences that would be entirely due to the wood choice in the construction above everything else. On that basis with the alembics I have bought new and used  I have tended to choose woods more because of it's aesthetic, and take comfort in their experience in wood choices. So far I haven't owned or played one i don't like the sound of regardless of woods.