Live Music Attendance Requirements

[adriaan]

Greg, sorry to hear how this has affected you and those close to you. Not sure if numbers matter to you, but this is how it is in the Netherlands.

85% of the adult population (15M) are fully vaccinated, 15% have chosen not to.

Of the people who need hospitalization for covid (today 473 in regular hospital care, and 174 in ICU) 90% are not vaccinated.

If vaccination had no effect, you would expect 85% of people hospitalized with covid to be vaccinated. But it's quite the opposite.


The problem with numbers is that it's not about the indivdual persons, but about the population at large.

[lbpesq]

97% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated people.   Almost 700,000 covid deaths in USA.   Haven’t heard of a single death from vaccination.    Hey, a lot of people die in cars.   Maybe I should stay out of cars until they figure it out?   If everyone had gotten vaccinated in the spring, we’d all be attending indoor concerts right now.   Freedom?   The government takes away your freedom to drive through red lights.   Why should the gov’t force my kid to wear a mask to school?   The gov’t already forces your kid to wear pants to school.  Why aren’t people complaining about that?  Personally, I don’t mind people who don’t want to get vaccinated.  Just be responsible about it - stay home, quarantine, and don’t interact with others anywhere so you can’t spread the virus.   If you want to interact with others, respect the social contract - I’ll take reasonable steps to avoid infecting you, and you take reasonable steps to avoid infecting me.   

Biil, tgo

[pauldo]

My .02.

What I think is truly being missed here is that this Virus (and whatever else is to come) is in my mind, a warning shot across our bow.  The human race is killing this planet, she (Mother Nature) has had just about enough.  Just as white blood cells protect the body by removing the unwanted, Mother Nature is getting set to off us.  We have heard “the meek shall inherit the earth” I always took that to mean that third world populations would take over after the Industrial Military Complex wipes out the Super Power countries… but no, the “meek” are microscopic organisms that will put the planet back into its flourishing state that it was in prior to “mankind” f’ng it up.

This will mutate and continue to change, and man will foolishly think they have things under control.   Mother Nature is NOT one to spar with.  We need to be harmonious with the planet.  We will fail as there is no profit to be made in loving Mother Nature.  My wife and I hug a lot of trees, try as we might we can NOT avoid single use plastic.  We have cupboards over flowing with single use plastic items that are on stand by for being repurposed for a second, third, etc. use.  Some days I just wanna cry.

Paul (who is by no means religious and has read far too many sci-fi books growing up)

[hammer]

Bill


I think your last several points are well taken starting with "I don't personally mind...Just be responsible about it."  I work with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities who have been hit especially hard by COVID and was one of the one's first in line when vaccines became available. I've been doubly vaccinated and will get a booster first thing when it's available to me. Not because I'm necessarily worried about myself but because Im worried about a lot of others including family members in their 90s whose immune systems aren't what they used to be and a grandson who won't be eligible even if/when they extend vaccines down to 5-year olds.


We are in this together whether we like it or not and need to find ways to support each other through this mess. As long as people who choose to not receive the vaccine at this time always mask up, wear a quality mask as it is intended to be worn, maintain physical distancing, and get themselves tested, I'm fine with their choice.


At this point, we've veered off track from my original posting regarding steps that venues have taken to protect their customers against the pandemic as well as the topic of "All things Alembic and Music Related" Given the varied opinions people have about vaccination, the pandemic, etc. I wouldn't mind at all if the moderators closed this thread down to avoid the discussion getting contentious.

[paulman]

Yep no contention here.  I'm still a friend if you wear you mask or whatever decision you make.  My post reads a bit judgemental, and it was not my intent.  Apologies if I helped bend the tracks.

[Pete si]

Here in New York City you can’t get into a restaurant, a Broadway show, a movie theater, a bar or just about any other public place without proof of being vaxxed or a negative test. Health workers are being mandated to get jabbed or tested or face losing their job. Same with teachers and other school personnel. However, that mandate has been temporarily blocked in court. The logic of which evades me.

One of the biggest detriments to stopping this thing is how politicized it has become. You have politicians who know nothing about science preaching to their constituents to do everything that will ensure they will get sick. And those constituents hang on every word of misinformation that spews out of their dumb ass mouths.

I, for one, didn’t think twice about getting the jab. I’m going for my third dose next Tuesday. I still wear a mask in all indoor situations. Let people laugh and/or make fun of me. I don’t give a crap if I am the only one masked up. When my doctors tell me about the horrors they see in their hospitals and how it could have been avoided that’s all the convincing I need to follow the advice of the science.

It’s up to the individual what choice they make or who to listen to. I made my choice. But I also believe that a person’s right to do what they want ends when it affects the well being of others.

[cozmik_cowboy]

"I am un-vaccinated and will remain so until the medical field at large figures out how the ham-sandwich this virus works. I do believe they will, in time, but right now it is changing faster than they can adjust to the mutations."

It is able to mutate because there enough unvaccinated people that it has been allowed to keep spreading long enough to mutate.

Sorry if you were hoping to get away without condemnation, but but in this case you are the problem! The longer people buy into the nonsense that the vaccine is somehow worse than the virus, the more, and more dangerous, mutations will occur.

In deference to the Wickershams, whose living room we are are in, I will not give you the full treatment I usual unload on those spewing that claptrap - but I will list a few names:

Smallpox.
Polio.
Measles.
Mumps.

We now have a couple generations to whom those names mean nothing.  Why?  Because people weren't stupid enough to eschew the vaccines that eliminated them.


Sorry, Wickershams & mods, if I crossed a line there, but I felt it had to be said.  I'll step away from the keyboard now.

Peter (who prefers to get his medical information from doctors & scientists, rather than half-witted conmen and moronic  podcast hosts)

[hammer]

Moderators -  I think we have crossed the line and personally I want to remain friends with ALL in our community  regardless of their stand on COVID vaccination. Maybe I was a bit naive, but in starting this tread I never intended that it would take us in this direction. Please close this thread as we have strayed a bit too far from the purpose of our club.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Sorry, Greg - reflex. 
I did not mean to question your intelligence - though I can see how that last line could be read that way.  We have enjoyed many friendly exchanges, both here and in private e-mails, and I would not want my passionate feelings on this matter to get in the way of that.
While I stand by everything I said in re the need for vaccines, masks, etc., I ashamedly ask your permission to withdraw, and apologize for, my intemperate tone.


Peter (who, in his own defense, will add that most of the people he engages with on this matter are known to him to not be decent, intelligent folks such as yourself)

[lbpesq]

Heck, who needs a vaccine ... can’t we just destroy Covid with the Jewish space lasers?

hehehehe

Bill, tgo

[peoplechipper]

Pauldo, sadly you are surely correct about this, there is more to come and soon, I would guess...on another note, I had a thought the other day that in future I will wear a mask when I'm sick to keep it away from others; I used to think the Asians on the bus in flu season kinda weird in the past, but now I see the wisdom that I and others were the fools...actually, it'll be a bandanna because my combination of large, narrow nose and glasses SUCKS with most masks...Tony.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Heck, who needs a vaccine ... can’t we just destroy Covid with the Jewish space lasers?

hehehehe

Bill, tgo

Hey - next meeting of The Tribe, think you guys could get together on pointing that thing at Mar......nah - already on thin ice ice here; not gonna go political.

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Well... it wasn't like I thought my opinion was going to be popular or embraced here, but I did expect a pinch more deference. I think you guys know how I feel about ya', because I post it all the time. I'm not that easily triggered or offended, so don't shut down a discussion on my account. Mine after all, seems to be the only dissent, and even that with the caveat (if you read the post) I will get vaccinated as soon as I see that it is effective. Brian asked about attendance requirements at a concert. My buddy John over at Bluegrass Today had comp'd tickets to see Bela' Fleck last weekend. The venue, as I said required not only a proof of vaccination, but a mask. That was a direct response to what Brian was asking. So I couldn't go. I might could have gotten away with it if they weren't really checking VIPs. Wasn't worth it to me to risk putting other people, especially a friend, in an awkward spot.

The rest of my post was more to do with living out and working through the COVID experience here in Virginia. I didn't go anywhere else with the discussion, political or personal. I only wanted you guys to know how I felt. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything contrary to the running thread.

Y'all carry without me, I have said too much already.   

[BeenDown139]

....and has read far too many sci-fi books growing up)

i myself have read far too much apocalyptic sci-fi and that's what this whole thing has felt like from the start.  people wearing masks.  quarantines.  segregation.  us vs. them.  fear and loathing.  conspiracy theories.  W00T!  right outta steven king!

even after almost 2 years i haven't gotten used to it even though it's now the "new normal".  i used to be a people person but nowadays being in a crowd makes me feel hinky.  not sure if i'll ever go to a live venue or play another gig again.   kinda makes me glad i'm getting to the end of my span and i'll be looking forward to shuffling off of this mortal coil.  hopefully well baked.

[lbpesq]

I will get vaccinated as soon as I see that it is effective. 

Greg, what I don’t understand about this position is what more do you need?  97% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated people!   The places with the lowest vaccination rates, like Texas and Florida have the fullest ICUs, the highest rates of infection, and are the breeding grounds for mutations.   The places with the highest vaccination rates, like NY and California, have the lowest infection rates and have hospital beds available.  Do you believe this is just a coincidence?

Bill, tgo