Seeking Opinions/Advice re: Interaction With a Manufacturer (NOT Alembic)

[lbpesq]

I have a situation and am looking for thoughts from this varied group of musically experienced people for whom I have a heckuva lot of respect.  Here's the issue:

I have a guitar amp made by a well-known manufacturer with a solid reputation.  I purchased the amp used, but in excellent condition.  (I also have other products manufactured by this company that I purchased new).  Recently, the reverb stopped working.  I contacted the manufacturer and was told that this is a known problem "due to a supplier defect that takes a while to surface."   The warranty has expired and the manufacturer wants to get paid for the repair.  Am I wrong for thinking they should fix this no charge, even if it's out of warranty, or have I just been spoiled by Alembic's outstanding level of support?

Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

No and yes.

Peter

[StephenR]

Bill, that sounds pretty sketchy to me but not unexpected.

I experienced a similar situation with Lexicon back in the 80s. I bought one of the first PCM60 reverb units to hit the market. Great product but a few days after the 1 year warranty expired it stopped working suddenly. I sent the unit to Lexicon and they told me the input chip had failed. At the time there was a single fee to fix one of these units which would cover replacing everything if you somehow managed to blow it up.. Since my warranty had just expired they said I had to pay for the repair. I asked if it was normal for the input chip to fail so quickly they just kept telling me no but "it's time had come". I asked if it was possible that the chip was defective in the first place and the answer was no and they would only cover this kind of a repair if most, if not all, of the chips had failed. They admitted that I did not do anything to cause the problem but would not budge and kept repeating "it's time had come". I was pretty ticked off at the time, especially since Yamaha had come out with a competing product shortly after I bought my Lexicon unit and Lexicon dropped the price of the PCM60 by $400 in response. So my $1,200 digital reverb had been selling for $800 shortly after I bought it. Made me feel like an idiot for being an early adopter and totally turned me off to anything digital. Ultimately it is all destined to be landfill junk as it becomes obsolete or breaks and isn't worth fixing. I had no choice but to pay the $100 they wanted to fix the PCM60. The good part of the story is that the unit retained enough value over the years for me to sell it in 2009 for enough money to buy myself an Avalon U5

And, yes it is easy to be spoiled by Alembic's customer support...,

[edwardofhuncote]

I think if they knew they put out a product with defective parts that eventually fail, (clearly, they admit as much) they should at least make the replacement parts free-of-charge. That seems fair.


Me personally, and my Ol' Man... if it has our name on it, we're fixing it without negotiation. And usually improving it. Musicians especially, have a funny way with long memories and brand loyalties.

[lbpesq]

Thanks for the advice, guys.  I sent an email suggesting that they should at least pay for the part.  I told them that I understood most of the repair cost was labor and the part probably isn't that expensive, but it's the principle of the matter.  I also said that if I put out a product with a defective part, I would fix it, no charge, for the life of the product.  We'll see what happens.

Bill, tgo (The "Gosh darn, my reverb ain't working" One)

[rv_bass]

If it is a known problem and known to be defective part, I’m surprised there is not a recall and they should work it out with their supplier to replace the defective part in all of their units.

[lbpesq]

I just received an email telling me they addressed the issue by extending the warranty from 3 to 5 years.  The amp was built in 2014 so I'm out of the warranty period.  The new part is under $5, but they still want me to pay for it, plus $60 labor and $20 shipping.  I'll do it, but it just seems like a bad business practice to me, especially not even willing to absorb the minimal price of the part.  Yea, they will get an extra $5, but when I give up guitar and look for another hobby, I won't consider making Quilts.

Bill, tgo

[pauldo]

Plain wrong.

Why is Customer Service such a foreign concept these days?  When did this happen?   If I have a mediocre Customer experience I get excited and call the Manager to tell them  how awesome it was that a clerk made eye contact with me and said “thank you”!

I. Do. Not. Understand. What. Has. Happened. In. This. Country.

[keith_h]

You have the right to have the unit repaired by anyone you please. Just on principle I would see if there is someone local who can handle the repair and give them the business. You haven't said whether it is proprietary part or a one that can be obtained from other sources. Either way I would buy the part or let whoever I was going to have repair the device obtain the part. Again on principle I would file a complaint with the CA consumer protection agency and FTC as IMO this should not have been treated as a warranty issue but as a recall because according to your correspondence the manufacturer knowingly used defective parts.   

[JimmyJ]

To be the tiny guy on your other shoulder...  We have indeed been spoiled by Alembic, a family owned company who builds products made to last 100 years.  Since they build things that way they back up anything that might go wrong.  Super professional.

Now Mesa, er, um, other companies that sell 80 different products may have a larger market share than our beloved family, but they are almost in a different business altogether.  Instead of making the absolute greatest possible products, most other companies are simply interested in the profit margin.  Obviously they need to make something good or nobody would be interested, but when it gets to the mass production level, saving $2 on every amp they crank out can add up.  So their goal is to use the cheapest components which might survive the warrantee period, put together in the cheapest possible way (surface mount anybody?) to turn the biggest profit. 

I'm not saying it's all junk.  There are some great mass produced products.  But the boutique builders are the ones most likely to back up their products and are almost happy to fix anything that's gone wrong.

Also, being the 2nd owner doesn't help your cause from the service department's point of view because you can't even say how the amp was handled by the previous owner. 

Sorry you've found the experience frustrating but if you use and enjoy the company's gear I guess you need to let it go.  Maybe I can buy you a coffee sometime so you get your $5 back? 

Jimmy J

[cozmik_cowboy]

I just received an email telling me they addressed the issue by extending the warranty from 3 to 5 years.  The amp was built in 2014 so I'm out of the warranty period.  The new part is under $5, but they still want me to pay for it, plus $60 labor and $20 shipping.  I'll do it, but it just seems like a bad business practice to me, especially not even willing to absorb the minimal price of the part.  Yea, they will get an extra $5, but when I give up guitar and look for another hobby, I won't consider making Quilts.

Bill, tgo

I was wondering if that was who it is.  More bad experiences with power amps from his former company than I care to remember.

Do't I recall you having a rack-mount spring reverb unit?  Use it & keep your money away from Pat.  Or is it gone in the Constantly Shifting Permutations Of Bill's Rig?

Peter

[cozmik_cowboy]

[snip]Obviously they need to make something good or nobody would be interested, but when it gets to the mass production level, saving $2 on every amp they crank out can add up.  So their goal is to use the cheapest components which might survive the warrantee period, put together in the cheapest possible way (surface mount anybody?) to turn the biggest profit. [snip]

Jimmy J

I am put to mind of two companies with diametrically opposed philosophies on this matter: On the one hand, there is one (which I cursed even more than the predecessor to Bill's problem company) who, according the guy whose name is on the front of the gear, are about (I will try to type in a heavy MS accent here.....) "Ah maik geer fer th' pickur wurkin' da-own at Sadie's Bahr Un Gree-ul"  - translated, "I license good designs, like the BGW 750, then build them with the cheapest labor & cheapest parts I can find." Yeah, his stuff breaks a lot - but at least it sounds like crap while works, ya know?  I will have a Hart & not mention the name.


Then there is Jim Gamble, of Gamble mixing boards; he is famous in some circles for rejecting >70% of the parts he orders as being too far out of spec.



To my mind, the proverbial happy medium would be much closer to Gamble's attitude........


Peter

[lbpesq]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not frustrated or pissed off about this, just disappointed.  I completely see and understand the company’s position.   They didn’t know the part was defective when they first installed it, and it did last for seven years.  I’m going to send the amp in and spend the money.  It’s a great sounding and uniquely light and compact amp.  I just think the company should do more to resolve this and is being short-sighted.  Sure, they’ll make a few bucks off of me, but the next time I’m in the market for gear, (and, like many of us, being inflicted with permanent G.A.S., it won’t be long), and I have a choice, I will probably choose a different manufacturer.   

I recall the first time I had any dealings with Alembic.   I had purchased a used Electrum at a guitar show and the electronics didn’t work properly.   I brought it to Alembic and while I was meeting Susan and Mica, Ron took it upstairs, did some quick magic, and it worked as it should.  And they didn’t even charge me!  Yes, they could have made a few bucks off me.  Instead, they gained a customer for life who not only proselytizes about the company any chance I get, but laid down the cash for a Custom Further.   The only thing I can criticize about Alembic is that they have spoiled me when it comes to dealing with just about every other music gear vendor.


Coz, I had a Demeter Real Reverb rack unit about 10 years ago.  Sold it.  And carrying an extra rack for it would defeat the purpose of this small, light amp.

Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

....carrying an extra rack for it would defeat the purpose of this small, light amp.

Bill, tgo

Eh - details......

Peter