Overhaul of my bass rig to handle a Series II

[Scott Syltebo (bonesrad)]

Hi all,
 
I'm absolutely loving my new (used) Series II 5 string as it's the most incredible bass I've ever played.  However, all I've been doing so far is running the power supply in mono mode to my F-1X, then bridged mono from my Stewart World 1.2 to an Eden 410-XLT in an amped setting, and running out of the XLR out of the F-1X for a signal to the board.  My goal now is to take advantage of the stereo capabilities of the bass, retain a manageable amp system for club gigging that allows for a direct signal to the board, and a system that works well for direct recording in the studio.
 
I'm very interested in hearing what you people use as your bass rig.  I envision something on the lines of an F-2B to my Stewart, then sending the bass side to a 15 and the treble side to a 2 X 10.  Do you think this is a viable approach?  Given this scenario, is it possible to get a direct signal to the board?
 
Thanks for your input.
Scott  

[Wayne McLemore (wayne)]

Scott-
 
If you find it, let me know.  The drawback that I've been unable to get past is running true stereo but feeding only one line to the board.
 
If you can run two channels on the board, just get another F-1X.  That way you could even bi-amp each pickup!!
 
A possibility I've thought of trying is using a DI that has dual inputs.  The Raven Labs APD1 does that.  In theory, it should be able to handle the output from the F-2B.  You would get the benefits of individual preamps for each pickup while still only taking up one channel on the board.  But you loose the ability to have separate cabinets for each pickup.
 
I talked with Ron once about using all three outputs from the F-2B (the stereo to cabs and the mono to a DI), but once you plug into the mono jack, there will be crosstalk between the two stereo jacks.
 
One last thought:  In theory (I've never opened one up) the two sets of outputs on the DS-5R are wired parallel.  It seems to me that would allow you to use both sets at the same time.  Plug one set into a dual input DI (the APD1 or the Radial JDI) and use the other set to drive an F-2B.  The only down side to that is the DI signal is not post-EQ.
 
Any other ideas?
 
C-Ya..............wayne

[Michael Delacerda (dela217)]

I know exactly what you guys are talking about.  The real way to do this is to use 2 channels on the board.  What I used to do is use an F2B and a large mono power amp.  I would use the mono output of the F2B and feed that signal to the board.  The soundman hated it, but he got over it.  It really sounded great!  I would not have true stereo on stage, but was able to have a separate channel for each pickup.  It really worked out well.  There was the rare occasion where I was given two signals at the board, but you had to have a soundman that you could trust.

[Scott Syltebo (bonesrad)]

Wayne,
 
The dual F-1X idea really makes a lot of sense to me.  Given that each would have an XLR out, you can send these signals to the mixer and the full range outputs to a stereo power amp.  Then to really have some fun, bring an SF-2 into the mix by running channel A into F-1X(1) effects loop and channel B into F-1X(2) effects loop.
 
Michael, you bring up a good point of dealing with sound personnel.  If he (she)'s freaking out about your crazy system, just running one F-1X mono would be the best way to keep everybody happy.
 
Thanks for the input, I knew I came to the right place.
 
Scott

[Charles David Tichenor (alembic76407)]

I don't know what all the hopla about playing stereo on stage, I have a Series 1 and played stereo when I first got the bass. I don't call it stereo, I don't see it as right and left, but more top to bottom, I would set up my amp with treble pickup on my side and the bass pickup on the other side of the stage. here's the rub, the guitar player on the other side of the stage would say your to boomy, turn it down, on my side of the stage the other guitar player would say your to bright, your ripping my head off, TURN IT DOWN, and the soundman hated everything, I could not win, so I sold everything and built up a Big mono amp (The Weather Machine)for my side of the stage and pissed off everybody, now its just 1-15 and 2-10s with my Boogie 400+ Mono!!! I miss the big amp 60s and 70s
 
David T (76407)

[Chris G. (76ac070)]

One more suggestion....find an old IN-2 (if I don't find one first!) - the IN-2 had a switchable / assignable output to the DI and still functioned as what is now a DS-5R.  You may want to get a confirmation of this from Ron, since the last IN-2 that I owned was in roughly 1978!

[Michael Delacerda (dela217)]

Hey everybody, I really love this thread!  I just want to tell you about a closed minded soundman.  The soundman I am working with right now used to be crazy about my sound.  He said it was smooth and buttery.  He just loved it.   Until one day he looked at my rack!  What he saw was my DS5-R.  He noticed for the first time that my bass had a 5-pin cable and went to this rack mount unit.  From this unit's mono output that is labeled BASS was where his feed came from.  From that moment on, he HATED and complained about my sound.  He kept calling it too boomy and how he wished I would send it to him pre-eq.  Imagine that.  I tried to explain to him how it all worked, but he just stuck to his guns.  I of course stuck to mine.  I was not about to use a 1/4 inch cable on my bass!  Aside from wasting batteries to calm a soundman, I would no longer have side LED's!  

[Michael Delacerda (dela217)]

I agree with Chris.  I gotta get one of them IN-2's.  I know someone that has one, and will not part with it.  He does not even have an Alembic instrument.  He is just being mean.

[Wayne McLemore (wayne)]

Have you asked the guy with the IN-2 to let you, under supervision, open the thing up and photo it so we can have one built??
 
How many of us do you think would have to gang up on Ron before he'd build a few more???  ;-)
 
About your close-minded soundman:  I've always wondered why Alembic didn't label the DS-5 outputs bridge and neck.  I'll never forget thinking (before I knew anything) that the Series basses must have some kind of crossover on board to split the signal.........

[Scott Syltebo (bonesrad)]

Charles,
 
I total understand your point of having a compact rig.  That's actually what I'm looking to achieve.  I think the term stereo is also not necessarily appropriate.  The concept I'm looking for is isolating the frequencies and textures that are derived from the Series II, and projecting them in the most effective and cool way.  As I stated in the openning, I think a 1-15 2 x 10 system would achieve this.  Right now I have 2 4x10 cabs and this is way too many speakers for anything but a relatively large venue.
 
All the input so far has been fantastic.
 
Scott

[Wayne McLemore (wayne)]

Scott-
 
Are you particularly wanting to send a post-EQ signal to the board?
 
If you're cool with sending pre-EQ, this gives me excuse/incentive to go to my local Alembic dealer and experiment with the outputs on the DS-5R.  All for the sake of helping out a fellow Alembichead, of course, since I know my local guy has some of the Radial JDIs in stock with the dual inputs.
 
Hmmmmm, I might just do it anyway.........
 
C-Ya.........wayne

[Daniel Tracey (dannobasso)]

Hello all, I switched over to Epifani cabinets for their sound quality and smaller size. The 310 is the best cabinet I have used to date. They have a variety of sizes that have high power ratings to siut most requirements. They are also very friendly and helpful. Outside of recording situations (using 2 outputs hi/low out of the F1X) every gig I have played, the sound guys will only take 1 output. I even have guys who refuse to use the direct out on the preamp! So for the most part the wonderful rigs we spend so much time and money on, simply become our on stage monitors. Not to mention that the sound gets mangeled by the house anyway. Hopefully you can get a guy who will take 2 outputs from you and mix them accordingly.
Danno

[Scott Syltebo (bonesrad)]

Dan,
 
I came very close to buying the exact cab you mention last year.  For me it came down to the Epifani and an Eden 410-XLT.  They were both about the same price new and since I had played with Eden in the past, and liked them, I went with the Eden.
 
I think for most practical purposes, you're correct Daniel, you're only going to get one feed to the mixer.  However, I've played many a gig in which my amp was the bass sound reinforecment.  This is again where the 1-15 2-10 driven by an F-2B or 2 F-1X's concept makes sense to me.  Furthermore, in a studio setting, the channels available for bass might become more plentiful.  Here I think the XLR outs from the 2 F-1X's make it a more versatile rig than one based on an F2-B.
 
Bones

[Daniel Tracey (dannobasso)]

The combination of 1 -15 and 2x10 has worked well for a lot of people including myself. I even used to run an 18 SWR with a Trace 2x10 because I run midi synth bass pedals. Unfortunately I ran into set up times in NYC clubs that cut things too close. Perhaps we can start a movement directed to the sound engineer establishment? Let them know that we are not just the bass player but someone who is more than willing to work with them by giving them the best signals we possibbly can. Sad truth is that not every bassist is a gear head who cares about their sound. Maybe that's why when we come along with basses and rigs that cost more than the average car we get some tude'. (Plus the fact that our rigs are so punchy we can't be put in a mix!) Keep hope alive.
Danno

[Brian Ceasar (bbe1020)]

Yesterday I got rid of my (2)Peavey TVX 2x10 cabs, and I now have the EDEN DAVID series cabs (1)210XLT (1)115XLT.  
 
 Anyone here using this setup with their series bass?