Change of pickups

[Malachiah (yekcko)]

1:Has anyone put different pickups other than Alembics on their bass?  
2:can this even be done?  
3:does Alembic make more than one style pickup for a 5 string rogue?

[James L. Martin (malthumb)]

I once bought a Series I where someone had swapped out the pickups for EMGs.  I had the circuit restored by Alembic.  It does show , however that it is possible, though I can't imagine why.

[mica]

We don't have any experience in installing other makers pickups in our basses, and like James, we've seen it done before.  
 
We only make one pickup style for each of our basses because we dn't actually use the pickups as tone controls. The frequency response is very wide and the only thing a different pickup will accomplish is to restrict what the electronics have to work with.  
 
This is much different from most builders' approach to pickups and electronics, but then again, most builders don't make their own pickups and electronics.  
 
The Rogue can be fitted with an extra-wide aperture pickup, the FatBoy. We don't use this on the standard model because the pickup is so big, it takes some of the beautiful wood away. This pickup is the one on the Excel bass and the same shape as you see on the Mark King models. It offers the widest frequency response because it uses the widest magnet (same one as the Series I/II).

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

..while we're on the subject ...
 
Mica:
 
Are the FatBoys the same size as AXY5/6's ?  Could I retrofit them into my 5-string Spoiler? Any problem with them and the Spoiler circuitry?
 
Thanks,
 
Joey Wilson

[Valentino Villevieille (valvil)]

Joey,
 
I believe the answers to your questions are yes, yes and no; I have 4 string AXY fat boys, but i've seen them on 5 & 6 strings Excels too.  Rami has a bunch of 'em in the showcase section. I swapped  regular AXYs for Fat Boys in my signature myself, and it was very easy; I also have them on a custom Rogue ( AXY shape too); I can't see a problem with fitting them on a Spoiler. Personally I love 'em.  
 
Valentino

[Michael Walker (rockandroller)]

Mica: what do you mean when you say that the FatBoy offers the widest frequency response because it uses the widest magnet (same one as the Series I/II)??
 
My (admittedly rather vague) understanding of pickups is that they are mainly considered 'inductors', so low-frequency response is pretty much to DC, but high-frequency response gets choked off as the inductance rises...
 
Ergo, my interpretation of what you just said is that Fatboys actually have extended high-frequency response compared to the AXYs. (somehow the larger magnet permits you to use lower-impedance wire, and thus gain more high end?)
 
Is this correct?
 
My gleanings from the web site had led me to believe that the larger magnetic aperture merely allows the pickup to sample a greater patch of string harmonics - resulting in a more complex tone, not neccessarily extended frequency response.
 
If you could clarify this, it will help me greatly in my ponderings (I will make a separate post to ilustrate why!)
 

[Alfredo (kayo)]

There so much technical data being discussed here..... great to always fortify my understanding of the complexitites involved in what all has gone into the design of an Alembic.
 
Just a quick comment... why would ANYONE EVER want to put EMG's in an Alembic? Isn't that kind of like going from a luxury Mansion to a trailer home?  My Steinberger bass has EMG's (I only own it for portability... I can take it everywhere, the bus, the plane...) and it has decent action.. aside from that those EMG's really suck.

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

Valentino,
 
You mentioned you replaced your AXYs with Fatboys and had no problems?  Did you notice a difference in tone and if so how much between the AXYs and the Fatboys.  I might consider doing this to my Elan 5 string if it makes a significant difference. I was and still am considering sending her back to Alembic to have the quick tone switches installed.  I'm just real reluctant to ship my baby cross country.
Has anyone else done this modification?!?  If so please chime in!!
 
Thanks,
Dino

[Valentino Villevieille (valvil)]

Dino,  
 
I guess the best way I can describe the sound I get from Fat boys is that tonally they are not really much different from the regular ones, but they give you a much hotter signal, resulting in a bigger sound; if you want to get a fat, saturated sound or even a somewhat distorted sound, it's easier to accomplish with the Fat Boys.  I'd call it Alembic sound squared.  Stoney may also have some feedback for you, since I believe he got some himself for one of his basses after he & I discussed them last year.
 
Valentino

[Malachiah (yekcko)]

Can anyone suggest the best strings to use on my five string Rogue, and also give me suggestions on setting up my strings for the lowest action possible without fret noise, My rouge has two trust rods adj wich makes adj my neck a real challange. Could use some help!  
 
Thanks
 
(Message edited by yekcko on February 19, 2003)

[Valentino Villevieille (valvil)]

Hello Malachiah,  
 
adjusting the truss rods is less complicated than you may think.  When you turn them clockwise you tighten them and  you get more back bow.  Loosening the truss rods gives you more forward  bow ; generally you do not need to tighten or loosen them much, a quarter turn will do the trick often enough.  Be careful that you do not loosen them too much, or they won't have any purchase at all.  It is easy to tell when they have gotten too loose as you won't feel any resistance when turning them; if that happens  just tighten them back until you feel them 'bite' again.    
 
There are several variables that determine how low you can set the action on your bass.  The truss rod adjustment is one. The height of the bridge is another, your touch ( do you pluck/pick in a heavy style?) is a third and string tension is a fourth. Also, when you make adjustments to the set-up of your bass you  generally need to reintonate it by adjusting the bridge saddles.  Mainly it's a matter of trial and error.  if you feel uncomfortable doing it yourself, find a good luthier in your area and have him set it up.  Also keep in mind that if you you live in an area with dramatic shifts in humidity, you might need to readjust the bass from time to time to keep it just like you want it.  
 
There's a bunch of good strings out there, however my favorites by far are Thomastik strings. I like both the Jazz Flats and the Jazz Roundwounds; they are quite expensive, about twice as most other makers, but they are worth it, they give you a huge tone and they are the only Electric bass strings I know of that wrap their core in silk. However due to their low tension,  sometimes you need to have a neck heat bended ( nowhere near as scary as it sounds) so that you do not end up with a back bow which makes the whole bass buzz ( as I did).  Other strings I like are Elixir strings and DR low rider strings. But everyone has a different taste, so a lot depends on how YOU like your bass to sound. Do you like it bright, very deep or in between?    
 
It might be easier to give you suggestions if you can tell us what you like soundwise , how you play and how is your Rogue set-up at the moment.  
 
Valentino

[Malachiah (yekcko)]

Valvi, Thanks much! yes I do live in a climate nightmare,,, Minnesota,,also, I like a Warm sound, I play gospel, so the bass must cut through the mix, I have never tried strings other that roundwounds, what kind of sound do flats give???....BTW...please comment on heat bended, what is it, how it happens, etc.....Thanks much for you respones, it helps alot!!!
 

[Valentino Villevieille (valvil)]

You're welcome my friend,  
 
If you like a warm sound then you very likely will appreciate flatwound strings, particularly Thomastiks.  Their roundwounds are also fairly warm, yet they have some brightness in them too.  
 
Heat bending the neck is something I've had done to one of my babies, but I couldn't really tell you exactly what the technique is. I guess it should not be too dissimilar from the techniques used in making the sides of acoustic instruments. I dropped it off at Alembic on a Friday and picked it up the following Monday.  What I think they do is use a combination of heat ( maybe steam??) and clamps to bend the neck a little more so that it will be in the correct position when light tension strings are put on.  Generally speaking, I believe that over 95 % of the bass strings out there have tensions that are fairly similar, so that even when you change gauge, no matter who made your bass, all you need to do to get the neck properly set up, is to adjust the truss  rod(s) a bit.  Thomastiks, as I said above, have soooo much less tension than your average string that often you do not have enough room with the rods to adjust the neck properly.   Mica told me that it is something they have experienced several times before with other clients who switched to Thomastiks.  Infact, I took her suggestion, so that when I commissioned my newest bass I brought a new set of Thomastiks to Alembic so that the bass could be fitted with them right at the factory.  I don't believe you could find many companies that would encourage you to do that, and that's one of the many small things that in my opinion sets them apart from everyone else.  
 
Anyways, in short, unless you plan to use Thomastiks I doubt you'll ever have to worry about having your neck go through the heat bending procedure.  
 
Mica can most likely give you more details on heat bending necks.  
 
By the way, you might want to re-read  my previous post since I realized I had the truss rod adjustment tips reversed; it's now corrected. Sorry about that.
 
Valentino

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

M(y):
 
Like VV said, adjusting your truss rods is learned easily on your ALEMBIC.  I taught myself, so believe me, you can too.  A couple of tips from my self-imposed semester:
 
A GREAT resource is Dan Erlewine's book, GUITAR PLAYER REPAIR GUIDE, ISBN 0-87930-291-7. Most mall stores have it/can get it, or try the guitar makers' supply houses like Stewart-MacDonald or Luthiers' Mercantile.  Dan really takes the mystery out of it.  And he's able to make the technical theory very understandable.
 
ALEMBICs are very easy, with the pre-radiused bridge and the adjustable nut.  With the BigRedBass, I've found I adjust the lowside truss rod separately from the high side, almost as if it were two separate basses.  This is understandable as the big E and B certainly have much more tension than the G and D.  And the neck-thru eliminates the neck joint.
 
A lot depends on how much you can feel, and your playing style.  A very low action demands a very deft touch.  As I learned, I got to where I could feel when the relief, height, etc., were where they needed to be for me.  You'll do the same.
 
Of course, do this with new strings, and set your intonation/bridge saddle lengths AFTER you're finished.
 
I agree with VV in that the Thomastiks are very fine.  The guages may seem a little strange, but they are terrific feeling and sounding strings.  And, as VV said, neck re-heats are very rare for ALEMBICs.
 
Best of Luck,
 
Joey Wilson

[Malachiah (yekcko)]

Joey and Valvi, I think you very much for your help, I seem to remember someone a while back telling that I should adj both trust rods at the same time the same amount of turns on a bass that has two trust rods, I dont know how true that is but? BTW, is it possible that strings with  taper ends will give me a little action close to the neck???
 
Peace and Blessings!