Author Topic: musician vs human  (Read 363 times)

pauldo

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musician vs human
« on: August 13, 2020, 06:39:54 AM »
While posting in another thread I pondered...


Should the behavior of a 'musician' while NOT making music, impact the ability to enjoy their art?


I know of a musician who I enjoyed a lot, but found out a few years back that his behavior in domestic situations is not aligned with my beliefs and now I don't particularly care to listen to him because his 'behavior' pops into my head when I hear his music.   


Interested in others thoughts...

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 06:49:54 AM »
I am usually - but not always - able to separate the two.  But I will tend to find a way to enjoy their art without benefiting them financially.

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

lbpesq

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 08:11:44 AM »
Everything I’ve heard about Chuck Berry is that he’s an A-hole, but I still appreciate his music.

Bill, tgo

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 09:41:47 AM »
A musician friend & I were joking about the many failings of a mutual friend (also a musician).  The Lovely & Charming Mrs. Cowboy asked why, if all that were true, he was our friend.

I explained - and my friend concurred - that the level of BS we can tolerate is in direct proportion to the source of said beef by-product's level of talent, and the subject of the discussion was immensely talented.

But that was just BS; nothing heinous.

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

jacko

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2020, 12:32:38 AM »
Interesting question Paul.
Back in the 70's (as a young teen) I was a huge fan of Gary Glitter and have a number of his singles still in my collection. I don't believe I've listened to any of his hits for years but that may mainly be because tastes change. His transgressions came to light long after he'd stopped being relevant musically so, thinking about it right now I'm tempted to spin a few up to relive my youth. 
There are a couple of rock musicians who's music I used to think was great but looking at how far their political leanings differ from mine, I won't listen to them now.

Graeme

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 08:33:47 AM »
There are a couple of rock musicians who's music I used to think was great but looking at how far their political leanings differ from mine, I won't listen to them now.
Graeme
There is a country singer who is second of 3 of the same name; not as good as his dad or his son, but I still liked his music.  He has revealed himself to be a racist scumbag, so I don't listen to him now.

But most of the ones whose political leaning would keep me from listening to them suck anyway (I'm thinking right now of another racist scumbag, given to posing in nothing but a cowboy hat & boots - even though he's from Michigan - and a Byrdland).

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

JimmyJ

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2020, 08:35:29 AM »
Yes, good question.  I believe that the super-creative folks among us are often susceptible to behaving badly due to the unusual wiring of their brains.  I once heard a classic NYC William-Morris booking agent put it like this: "These Artists have extra creative "bolts" in their heads which make them able to do what they do.  But that usually means they're missing some bolts in other areas."  Ha!

If I hear that somebody is a real-life jerk but their music is sublime, I'm tempted to give them a pass and put the downside out of my mind.  But yeah, sometimes it goes too far and they need to be removed from the playlist.  Guess we shouldn't name names here but I'll just say that the wife and I used to enjoy the movies "Bananas" and "Sleeper" but just can't watch them anymore...

Jimmy J

lbpesq

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2020, 10:18:46 AM »
Yes, good question.  I believe that the super-creative folks among us are often susceptible to behaving badly due to the unusual wiring of their brains.  I once heard a classic NYC William-Morris booking agent put it like this: "These Artists have extra creative "bolts" in their heads which make them able to do what they do.  But that usually means they're missing some bolts in other areas."  Ha!

This is similar to a theory I have been espousing for many years regarding a genetic difference between men and women, (not to worry, nothing sexist to follow).  Women have the gene that allows them to stop and ask for directions.   Men are missing this gene.  Instead, in its place, men have the gene that allows them to appreciate the Three Stooges.

... rim shot ...

Bill, tgo

paulman

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2020, 11:32:47 AM »
I am unable to play with someone I know to be of low character. 


Everyone has their pecadillos though, and I still have my Milli Vanilli CD, Girl You Know It's True (such an ironic title).   


Such a faceted topic, thanks for bringing this up!   8)


Frankly, thought this thread was more regarding this: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=compresserhead&&view=detail&mid=92BC92615CBF13424E0292BC92615CBF13424E02&&FORM=VRDGAR
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 11:35:44 AM by paulman »
The only thing that stays the same is change.

edwin

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2020, 12:20:03 PM »
Here in the Denver area, this kind of thing has been a hot topic over the past few years. There's a singer here who was sexually assaulted by a bandmate. She wasn't having it and outed him and immediately after, there flowed a huge discussion about that person's prior bad behavior which the other victims had kept quiet and the bad acts of other musicians. It got very heated for a while, as the information came out, with some people not believing it could happen, but eventually pretty much everyone agreed that enabling acts like that should not be tolerated. Part of the problem is that women in music have a hard enough time getting established and getting gigs without having to deal with the initial trauma and then deal with the politics (if club owners are close with the perpetrators, then people who are harmed are leery of speaking out because it might effect their ability to get gigs, which happened for a while until the club owners were convinced that what happened happened. Lots of drama.). I have a lot of admiration for the people who spoke up and made a change right here in my music scene.

There are also some political issues, but those tend to only really come up on social media. One of my favorite drummers (and people to hang out with) is diametrically opposed to me politically, but we leave that at the door and enjoy the music (aside from some good natured teasing.).

It's not just nationally or internationally known stars who have problems.

lbpesq

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2020, 12:37:05 PM »
The bass player I’ve been playing with for over 30 years and I am at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.   We usually stay away from political subjects, but when we do get into it, we have respect for each other and actually listen to each other.  There are also the occasional good-natured barbs going back and forth, but it has never affected our ability or desire to play together.   Too many people equate political disagreement with a license to be rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.   

 Bill, tgo

pauldo

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2020, 01:26:54 PM »
Interesting thought Bill. 

I am just cracking the door open to a very good, long know friend who has been thumping his chest about how great our new Commander in Thief is...  I don't agree.   I am also flabbergasted that knowing this persons past and his past values that he would align himself with someone such as that. . .

We have musical chemistry together, I have always said - I know what he is going to play before he plays it!  And we have been known to have some incredibly succinct extended jams.   He recently reached out to me to help on a new project that he is putting together.   I was shocked and concerned about my ability to 'see' past what I view as an ugly person.  But in the end he is 'just a person' he isn't evil he just has beliefs  that I am not aligned with. 

We are going through material physically distanced at this time with the expectation of getting together a few times 'live' to hash out a few details and then record it.  I admit that it is a thrill for me because my Distillate and I have become roommates for the last several years and it is about time I re-kindle my love affair!

Paul  (who is frightened by the Terminator version of Lemmy!  ;) )

edwardofhuncote

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2020, 04:22:38 PM »
I got a gig with a guy one time who had somehow cultivated a reputation for being this hyper-conceited, opinionated jerk. It seemed like nobody liked the guy. But I was fresh home from Nashville, gig-less, depressed beyond words, and I needed desperately to play again. It was only a couple hours' commute, so I figured; what the heck, worst that'll happen is I'll get fired. I took a swing, and surprisingly got the gig. Funny the things you remember, but wish you didn't. I had just had my wisdom teeth cut out at that seat-of-the-pants audition. Practically drooling blood. Long story shortened, he was one of the most honest, upfront dudes I ever worked for. Told me straight away, at the first rehearsal it was going to be a short-term gig, and under no circumstances should I make any big plans or life changes because of it, that he was just trying to put together a competent band to finish out a schedule before he could take up another opportunity/obligation. That he would appreciate it if I kept that information quiet. Maybe a dozen festivals later, we parted company on good terms. That was 1998. To this very day, every time I run into that guy, (which isn't too often) he calls me by my first name, like we've been buds forever.

*If there was a point to this ramble, it's this - sometimes people just get judged unfairly. Maybe that guy is the biggest creep in the biz. Not to me, he wasn't. And I didn't see him treat anybody else badly either.




cozmik_cowboy

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2020, 04:59:40 PM »
The bass player I’ve been playing with for over 30 years and I am at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.   We usually stay away from political subjects, but when we do get into it, we have respect for each other and actually listen to each other.  There are also the occasional good-natured barbs going back and forth, but it has never affected our ability or desire to play together.   Too many people equate political disagreement with a license to be rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.   

 Bill, tgo

This right here is what is much too much missing from our public discourse these days.

I have a high school friend - one of the maybe 8 or 10 people in my HS I actually liked - who I still keep up a friendly correspondence with; he is now a security analyst for Blackwater (or whatever they're calling themselves these days).  Suffice it to say that is not the path I followed - but that dichotomy was there 50 years ago, too.

I tell him how the world works, how bad it sucks, and how we have to change it.  He tells me that yes, that is how the world works, but hey - that's how the world works, we have to deal with it, and he will all in his power to assure his tribe wins.

By civil discussion, we have each budged the other slightly on minor points - and given each other massive fodder for tweaking each other.


I could see working with someone to my right (which is good, as only working "to my left" would leave a dearth of opportunities.....); rapists & kiddie-diddlers?  Yeah, not so much.


Peter (who will risk censure for violating the politics ban by stating straight out he is a Marxist - of the Groucho school)
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

lbpesq

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Re: musician vs human
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2020, 06:34:20 PM »
“Peter (who will risk censure for violating the politics ban by stating straight out he is a Marxist - of the Groucho school)”


Personally, I consider myself more a Lennonist - of the John school!

hehehehe

Bill, tgo