Author Topic: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project  (Read 1789 times)

edwardofhuncote

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Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« on: June 24, 2020, 10:55:43 AM »
The Hyak Has Landed!
 
So this one bounced around the internet for a while, we even discussed it here a couple times in the Swap Shop. It surfaced on Craigslist, then disappeared again. Then Reverb. Poof, gone. Finally, this Hyak turned up in the TalkBass Classifieds, ironically with a member I had done a swap-deal with several years ago. He had tried fretless with it, and was giving up. I exchanged several messages, got some detailed pictures, worked out what I thought was fair for a bass that was playable but needed, and really deserved a proper restoration. About the price of a nice imported Fender, if you're curious. I had to save it.
 
I knew just from hanging around here exactly what this bass was, and generally what to expect... I've read every thread from Michael Delacerda and Eiji-san, even a couple threads where Mica's crew restored a Hyak or two. Hyak instruments' build quality is quite similar to their Alembic cousins, but the electronics are problematic for most shops unfamiliar with them to work on, and the necks depended upon graphite laminates for reinforcement, which often just wasn't enough.
 
My new-to-me Hyak fretless suffers from both of the common symptoms... even with six graphite layers the neck has too much relief, no way to adjust it any lower, and all that remains of the original electronics are the pickups. Maybe the best news is, those pickups are dead-quiet... no hum, buzz, squeal or crackle whatsoever. They are wired simply to a pair of passive treble roll-off pots, and a 3-position selector switch, and a 1/4" mono jack. Perfectly functional as-is, if a bit anemic without an active preamp to drive things. The socket for the 5-pin is there, but the jack itself, long gone. The action is higher than I like it in the center of the scale, but passable. With a new set of 364 T-I Jazz Flats, it plays... okay.
 
In the long-term, it's going to be a restoration project. I was thinking this bass was in much worse condition when I bought it than it turned out to be. It was filthy. I spent two night scrubbing and cleaning, then polishing up the metal parts, and when I got through, well... by golly, it didn't look too bad! I have now ruled out refinishing it. I think it would actually be kinda' disrespectful to remove the honest playing wear it has, and the few other bruises and knocks it has just add character. I'm going to address the playability issues first. We'll remove the fingerboard, flatten the neck beam with moist heat, and install an adjustable truss rod. Then it'll get a new fingerboard, probably fretted and with abalone inlay. This truss rod installation will be a little tricky, as the neck pickup is right up against the end of the fingerboard. I'm working on a plan so that the adjustment is easily accessible. Eventually it'll get some new electronics too. I definitely want to keep those original pickups if at all possible, so that'll weigh a lot on what goes in.

It's partly a Showcase for a non-Alembic bass, that I may eventually bring this back as a Shop Thread, but I thought you guys might like a look at my latest rescue. Enjoy the pictures.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:57:14 AM by edwardofhuncote »

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 11:09:26 AM »
Couple more details...

Any guesses on the woods appreciated. I'm thinking the core is mahogany, and the top and back are most likely walnut. The light wood in the neck is probably maple, maybe beech, center stringer looks like purpleheart maybe. Not sure on the drark brown stringers.

Check out those position dots though... pretty snazzy! ;D
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:11:18 AM by edwardofhuncote »

KR

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 11:26:58 AM »
Greg,
Cool bass. Unique.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:46:50 AM by KR »

dela217

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2020, 11:47:11 AM »
I have talked with the seller of this bass before too.    If he would have sent me some detailed pics like that, I would probably own it!    All of the pictures posted of that bass were taken with a potato.

Really looks nice!   So are those side LED's that no longer work?   Something else?   I find that electronics get removed out of those instruments because they just stop working.   There are these green and tan tantalum capacitors that go bad on all 3 circuit boards.   Yes there is a separate circuit board for each pickup, then there is a board called a summer board that combines the signal.   Really strange and the whole mess runs on 36 volts.    My local tech says he can re-create all of that if you're interested.

But I suggest leaving it as is and just fixing the playability of the instrument.   Good on ya to fit a truss rod.   I have thought of that too, but it would be nothing I could do myself.   Since the pickup is right against the fingerboard, I thought of notching the fingerboard in the middle and losing a fret on the D and A strings.   Just a thought.   I have no issues when I use TI light gauge power bass round wounds.   When I use the TI Jazz flats, it is just too much tension!

Glad you posted a pic of the serial number.   I like that kinda stuff.    Not that the serial number was sequential in any way.    Supposedly it was the date made.   But then a different owner took over and I understand a different numbering scheme was then used.  My serial number is stamped inside the control cavity, battery cavity and on the inside of the wood control cover plate.

dela217

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2020, 11:50:21 AM »
I find it strange that bass does not have a logo either!   Maybe it was ordered that way.

lbpesq

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2020, 11:53:47 AM »
Greg, I recently met Brian Smith, Mr. Hyak Guitars.   He looked at my Hyak guitar on which the fretboard has become partially detached.  He told me that, due to the graphite, one must use epoxy to glue the fretboard back onto the neck.  Since you are planning to remove the fretboard, I thought I would pass on this bit of information from the man himself.

Bill, tgo

elwoodblue

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2020, 12:17:43 PM »
So are those side LED's that no longer work?


 That's my question too, sure looks like it.
How will that affect the fingerboard removal?
Does Epoxy melt?


(I guess I have a few questions  ;) )


My vote is black walnut for the stringers.
Elwood

growlypants

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 12:19:09 PM »
Man...CONGRATS, Greg!!  That's an amazing looking instrument.  (And it'll only look better from here on out!)
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

keith_h

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 12:54:35 PM »
Looks nice. I'm thinking the dark stringers might be Walnut. Mahogany, Birch and Walnut would have been a fairly common in a neck recipe in that era. The center stringer is likely Purpleheart but from the picture could be well aged Vermilion.

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 01:02:28 PM »
Sweet.

From the pix, the neck looks to me like mahogany, ebony, walnut, ebony, birch, ebony, purpleheart, and then, of course, the same on the way back out. [edit:  But, as Keith posted while I was typing, vermillon is possible for the center]

On the truss rod, would it be feasible to make the new 'board a tad shorter?  (I'm assuming a 'grasser doesn't play much that far up......)

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

keith_h

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2020, 01:17:24 PM »
Since you are removing the fretboard you should be able to determine the center stringer buy giving it a light sanding to remove the oxidation and reveal its original color.

dela217

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2020, 04:28:15 PM »
What you guys are seeing in the neck is not ebony.   That is the graphite stiffeners.

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2020, 05:28:12 PM »
What you guys are seeing in the neck is not ebony.   That is the graphite stiffeners.


Aaahhhh!  I see; thanks, Michael.  BTW, any word on how the Karina restoration is coming?

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

gtrguy

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2020, 11:07:57 AM »
That will be a fun project! If that bass had been local, I think I would have bought it too.

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Hyak Scroll Bass - Rescue/Restoration Project
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2020, 12:00:06 PM »
Thanks for all the responses fellas.  :)

Dela, I was hoping you would see the thread and chime in with some thoughts. I'll email you some further developments as I find them. I do believe those were LED's. The wire to them ran under the E-string side of the fingerboard through an epoxy-filled, I'll call it a channel. I didn't realize what this was. Ha! Yeah, those serial numbers are pretty cool. Mine was inside the battery compartment, and there may be another inside the control cavity or underneath a pickup too, but I haven't investigated further yet. So #780502 likely refers to May 2nd, 1978... how interesting. The missing logo is totally a mystery. There doesn't appear to have ever been one. But there isn't much question about the authenticity of this one either. Maybe it was a blem or a second. Maybe it was an unfinished one that was among the stock reportedly sold to the music store when Hyak closed up shop. I would love to know. I had thought about various ways to tastefully reproduce it for restorations' sake, or maybe we just accept that it came without a logo and let it be. It's within my capabilities to do something pretty darn close, and it isn't beneath me to enlist professional help fitting it with a proper logo either. 

Bill, I knew you had a Hyak guitar at one point but hadn't seen you post about it recently. How cool that you got to meet the man, himself! I was actually wondering about how to save that original fingerboard given the discovery of those LED's, but if you notice, there is a very thin 'sacrificial' layer of maple under the ebony, which we hope will help with the removal. It's a pretty long shot those old things still work anyway. Thanks for the excellent tip though... I expect we will replace the sacrificial laminate and glue it with epoxy. The fingerboard should adhere to that with conventional Titebond just fine.

In this thread, you can see the ingenious approach the Alembic Shop took to a truss rod installation in a Hyak bass. http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=7303.msg80945#msg80945  We may try something similar. My takeaway from that beautiful job was that routing the channel through the scarf joint so the adjustment could be made from the headstock just behind the nut, was not a good idea.

Lots of time to figure out where to go with this project. Thanks everyone for the input.

Jury is still out on wood. The finish, whatever was used, has certainly darkened the hues. I agree, vermilion is definitely possible as an alternate for the purpleheart center laminate. Or it could be purpleheart and the two browner ones, vermilion. I'm back and forth on the light wood, leaning towards maple. I'm not even sure the body core and neck are mahogany anymore. I dunno. Probably, maybe. ::)