Author Topic: Old versus New: advice needed (Read 335 times)

xpondr · « **on:** April 23, 2003, 01:02:34 PM »

Greetings,
This is my 1st post here. I just happened to play recently on a 77 Turner built guitar and was pretty excited. (I already play on Gibsons, Fenders,etc). Since this is the only Alembic guitar I ever tried and I live in France where there are not too many around, I was hoping to get some advice on the differences between such an instrument and more recent ones.
In other words: are the Turner made guitars superior in some ways? Or has 30 years of research at Alembic produced superior instruments in some other ways (electronics, lutherie, etc)?
What about the weight of Alembic guitars over the ages?
Help please.
Thanks

Laurent

xpondr · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2003, 01:07:57 PM »

Correction: the Turner-built guitar is a 74, not a 77.
Sorry
Laurent

valvil · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2003, 02:30:19 PM »

Hello Laurent, and welcome to the club.

As Mica and Susan have repeated many times, nobody ever built an Alembic on his own. A lot of folks talk about Rick Turner Alembics ( or Michael Dolan for another), and I think that is somewhat misleading; what that means to me, is simply that Turner was working at Alembic when that instrument was built and not that he built it all himself.
As far as Old Vs New, I am all for the new. They look better, have more options and quieter electronics, generally speaking. As far as I know the technique for building the instruments has not changed much, if at all
So, if you ask me, no, I would not say that old Alembics were superior to the new ( woods tend to sound better as they age, though, so It's never easy to compare a 30 year old instrument to a brand new one). I think they are comparable , but the new ones have more lamination and seem to use more spectacular woods than the old. I'm sure some folks will disagree with me, but for what it's worth, those are my 2 cents on it.

Valentino

zappahead · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2003, 03:33:05 PM »

I think you cant go wrong either way. The Turner era guitars have always been special to me. When I see one I usually want it.

I see newer Alembics that I like better, but you have to say that the prices couldnt be any further apart. You can custom order what you want now, the older era Alembics have different options, but seem more consistent. Like the previous poster also said, Id doubt Turner himself built any of the guitars alone and probably didnt work on all of them since hes only one guy.

Still, you can get a Turner era Alembic in really nice shape from 2-3k in the US pretty easy. Thats just a total steal. I can say enough how good a deal that is. When you compare a newer one with the series electronics its going to cost you 2 or 3 times that new and at least twice that used if you can even find one.

I cant really compare either one much except as a rabid fan of either one. If I were far wealthier than I am and in a perfect world I would actually buy both since I think they are both as nice an instrument as you can find and in their own way both are worth it.

All Alembic guitars Ive held are pretty heavy. There isnt a substitute for their woods and construction techniques, but odds are its going to be pretty heavy. I like heavy guitars so they have always been right up my alley.

jake · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2003, 04:18:45 PM »

in my opinion, there are good reasons to buy either one, or if you have enough money buy both. The new instruments made by alembic are absolutely purely 100% flawless in every way possible. There is no other guitar company that makes new electric guitars that come anywhere near being the quality of a new alembic. However, the old instruments have at least to me more of a unique feel, a unique voice. They may not be 100% perfect like the new instruments, but the old ones feel better to me. Also, the pickups on the old ones are sometimes noisier. So, there are good things about both, but just in terms of price and feel i would personally go for an old one but it is understandable why someone would want a new one just seeing how perfect they are.

xpondr · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2003, 07:52:47 AM »

Hi all,
Thanks for all the advice. I'm very tempted to go for that old one, which by the way comes with a certificate of authenticity from Turner. It has a walnut top and is priced at $2500. The power supply is missing. Could anyone please tell me whether I need it if I play mono only?
What about that 5 pin plug (missing the cord): what does it do?
Sorry if the questions seem trivial to all you harcore fans but I just joined the club.
This guitar has 2 switches: 1 activates the pickups, and the other one doesn't seem to do anything. Any idea?
Thanks again
Laurent

mica · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2003, 11:43:12 AM »

I'd say that our newer instruments are far more consistent that the early ones. The early basses and guitars are of fine quality, as we've always strived for, but with each one we build we get a chance to learn something about construction and the resulting sound.

You will have to rewire the 1/4 jack to mono if you want to use it without the power supply in mono. The internal batteries will only last about 40-60 hours, so you may find it beneficial to have the power supply. We make rackmounted ones these days, and they run $475.

If you are using a regular guitar cord with the 1/4 jack you're only receiving one pickup so half the controls will not function until you rewire it.

The 5-pin cord connects the bass to the power supply. a 20-foot cable is $190. We can send you instructions on how to make your own if you have the connectors available.

bigredbass · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2003, 12:20:17 AM »

Laurent:

As far as 'Turner' era guitars go, I would echo Susan's final word on this and similar themes, that no single person ever built them (and my personal favorite about every person who ever picked up a piece of sandpaper in our shop).

(As for me personally, what is a 'certificate of authenticity from Rick Turner' good for? Free sawdust?)

The best advice is Mica's. As any good, honest luthier will tell you, the more of them you build, the better you and your staff become at building the rest of them. She is exactly right that the intervening years have allowed them time to refine everything with experience and history.

IF you can afford to go either way (used OR new),
a new guitar would allow you to have it built exactly to your requirements. Weight, neck, pickups, hardware, woods, etc. . . . just for you. That's and entirely different proposition than buying a used one that may or may not entirely suit you, and may need some electronic work and replacement gear to be complete.

J o e y

(Message edited by bigredbass on April 25, 2003)

dela217 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2003, 06:16:32 AM »

Joey,

I really like that comment Susan made too. Hopefully I will visit Alembic someday. I am going straight for the sandpaper to make my claim.

Michael

zappahead · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2003, 06:52:18 AM »

The newer Alembics are made better and age and whatever people do to their older instruments will always take its toll. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

I still think that the used early Alembic guitars are great deals. You can barely touch an Alembic new in the 3k range and that will buy you a very nice Series I from the 70s.

Of course you wont be getting a completely custom made instrument which I think is unarguably the best. Still the newer Alembics carry a merciless pricetag and you will eat your shirt if you want to ever sell it used.

Thats probably my biggest advice, is to be 150% sure that the new Alembic you are ordering is exactly what you want and that you will be keeping it and playing it your whole life. The market for Alembic basses is huge and even those go down in value a lot when people try to sell them down the road.

The market for their guitars is even smaller since for some ungodly reason most people blow their money on the same tired gibson/fender custom shop junk or other various luthiers who specialize in copying the same gibson/fender junk for ungodly sums of money.

I think Alembic makes the best guitars and when you look at what they give you compared to say the fender shops and gibson historic whatever then they are not bad deals either. If you are simply weighing the decision on the quality of the instruments I would buy new since I cant remember even seeing a flawed Alembic. If price is an issue or if you are investing in the instrument and thinking of selling it then Id wait on a used one if you can find it.

malthumb · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2003, 07:12:00 AM »

Let's see, I acquired (in order) an '83, an '87, a '74, a '79, another '87, and a 2000. I still have the last two. Not that any of them were bad (they were great) but the '87 and the 2000 are keepers.

The '87 that I still have is pretty much what I would order if I had ordered it new. I might have ordered a couple cool options here and there. The 2000 is exactly what I ordered and except for a couple minor details, is what I'd order again.

Peace,

James