Rust on Older Brass Tuning Keys

[Paul L. Boulet (paul_boulet)]

All ? I have an older Alembic and the metal on the Schaller(sp?) tuning keys shows tiny spots of rust.  I?ll try to post a picture to make myself clear on this.  Is there anything that can be done to restore the keys to their original state ? aside from replacing them, re-plating, etc?
 
Let me know.  I?m sure I?m not the only one here who has encountered this.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
-Paul

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

Hi Paul,
 
(it's getting stuffed here with Paul's).
The Bad one (that's me)
The Good one (that's Paul Ellsworth)
The Fake one (that's Dino - of course)
The Ugly one (not decided yet - I understand perfectly you not wanna be him!)
 
Stop the jokes!
 
There must exist a kind of brass-polisher that people normally use around the house. It's based on the same principle one uses to polish a car. The thing that happens is that you in fact rub a tiny layer off the brass in a chemical way. Alas I have no brand names and I definitely have no US brand names. I know there was a thread around that gave names. I hope our Holy Moder comes  around this thread and can figure it out.
I even think someone gave the advice to spray a little hair-laquer onto the brass after it's cleaned. To keep it clean. But that could be a joke as well.
My two cents.
 
Paul - the bad one
 
BTW: it can take some time before the Moder is gonna see this. I think he just received his new bass. I think he will not be very moderating the next few weeks LOL!!!

[mica]

I think the tuning keys on your instrument are gold plated Schallers, Paul (the Boulet one). Tiny pores in the plating allow sweat and air to come in contact with the base metal and may corrode. If you use a brass polish on these tuners, you will remove the gold plating, so it's not recommended.
 
Some people never have the gold plating wear off the tuners, for others, it can happen very quickly depending on the acidity of your sweat and where the bass is stored.  
 
I'm afraid the only thing to do is to replace the tuners or send the buttons off to be polished and replated.  
 
When we get goldplating done on our brass parts, we first plate with nickel, then with gold, so the pores in the two layers will probably not line up and keep a more durable surface.

[Paul Ellsworth (elzie)]

Mica, what about Never-Dull? Has anyone at Alembic tried this for the same problem? I use it on everything and have yet to have any problems, but I also don't have gold plated tuners....  
 
Paul (the good one, for now...)
 
(Message edited by elzie on April 01, 2003)

[Paul L. Boulet (paul_boulet)]

They?re gold plated?  That makes me feel both good and stupid at the same time.  Here?s the picture so that we can confirm this.
 

 
Is it really possible to get them replated?  What would the cost be associated with that (Note: there would be 10 keys in all)?  Is there any concern for the original quality of the instrument?  I would assume that it?s not in the same class as getting the wood refinished ? but is there an impact to its original quality?  How effective would the polishing be?  The Never-Dull idea sounds like it's worth a try - any more thoughts there?
 
TIA for all of your help with this.
 
BTW: I concur with not wanting to be Paul ? the ugly one, and would rather not be the more accurate Paul - the not-so-unbecoming one.  How about I settle on being Paul - the Leo one (or just Leo), as that is my middle name.  I actually have gone by Leo before there was Leo - the DiCaprio one.  Despite that inference, I?ll stick with Leo all the same.
 
Thanks again for your help.
 
-Leo

[Paul Ellsworth (elzie)]

LOL! Leo is my confirmation name.  
 
Paul ( the second)

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

Paul:
 
Those are DEFINITELY gold-plated Schaller M4s.
 
Mica is right: You're going to have to replace them (easily done).  I'm sure that's going to be cheaper than replating the 'ears'.  You can always repolish brass (ALEMBIC bridges, for instance) but you can't polish this out of the gold plate.
 
I might add one other suggestion:  IF there is a big music store with a full-service repair shop in your area, they might have some clean M4s in a 'junk drawer'.  My favorite tech has buckets of old, weird, or extra parts that has become my favorite junkyard for odds and ends that I occasionally need.
 
Joey

[Michael Delacerda (dela217)]

If you are going to replace those keys, I do not think you can get them in that configuration any more.  The securing screw that holds the key to the back of the headstock is in a different place than on the older ones.  The newer tuning keys have the securing screw 90 degrees from where the old securing screw used to be.  I think that Joey may be right in that you may have to find some low mileage used ones.

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

Hey Paul,
 
Unfortunately that can't be buffed out.  It's actually the plating bubbling up.  This happens all the time on chrome parts on my Harley.  Like Mica had said, it either needs to be replaced or re-plated.  Try the Never-Dull but I really don't think it'll help.
If you do decide to re-plate, call your local Harley dealer and ask them who does their plating for them.  There's no one more discriminating than a Harley owner and their chrome and or gold plating so you know you'll get a quality job.
Good Luck,
 
Dino

[Paul Ellsworth (elzie)]

Here is another alternative. www.caswellplating.com . Click on the pick a kit helper link and see if you can find an inexpensive way to fix this yourself.
 
Paul (TGO)

[mica]

I call on Mr. Fat Dog whenever I need a weirdo-old part.  

[Paul L. Boulet (paul_boulet)]

All:
 
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and references!  But, all thing considered, I?m not inclined to replace or replate the keys.  They are functionally perfect and you need to get real ?up close and personal? before you?d ever notice the cosmetic detriment.
 
The only thing I?d like to insure that it does not continue further than it has advanced thus far.  Would the Never-dull at least serve as a sealer to halt further rusting?
 
-Paul (Leo)

[Paul Ellsworth (elzie)]

It won't seal it, but(uh oh) it will prevent or slow it down. I would suggest rubbing it on and wiping it off at every string change. That's what I do anyway.  
 
 
Paul (TGO)
 
(Message edited by elzie on April 02, 2003)

[elzie]

I realized that I need to clarify something I said. I DO have gold plated tuners on my Alembic. However, the tuners that I use Never-Dull on are on my Fender. Sorry for the mis-information. I must have had a brain cramp or something.....

[bigredbass]

Just remembered a tip from the old days. MD's post about the newer M4s leaving the old screw hole exposed reminded me . . .
 
Back in the days when a lot of people were fond of taking the pickguards off their Les Pauls, invariably the lacquer would begin to flake away from the previously occupied screw hole.  So we began to remove the pickguard and screw the gold screw back into the hole.  It saved the lacquer and looked a lot nicer than the hole staring back at you.
 
BTW, a really safe way to keep gold hardware and newly polished brass shiny and safe from sweat is a 'Hints from Heloise' tip:  Once the parts are clean, put a very light film of Alberto VO5 hair dressing (yes, the stuff in the gold toothpaste-type tube) on them.  Just a LITTLE, where it feels the least bit slick to touch.  I lived on the Gulf and Atlantic coasts most of my life, and this really works well in even that kind of salt and humidity.  The stuff is organic and harmless,  
no ferocious chemicals involved.
 
J o e y