Author Topic: Head vs. Power Amp (Read 252 times)

slugbass · « **on:** May 28, 2003, 09:16:42 AM »

Greetings from Chicago!

Okay folks, I need your help, guidance, and general expertise. I probably should start with telling y'all the rig I have. First, I'm playing a Spolier Exploiter (Yippee! Hurrah for Alembic!), and running it through the following:

A Gallien-Krueger 400RB Head
A Line 6 Bass Pod (the rack version)
A GK 4x10
A GK 1x15
...and soon, an Eden 4x10

My head, which is probaly 10+ years old or so, has been acting a little funky and/or hinky recently. So I'm thinking about getting a new head. I was seriously considering an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro, but a friend of mine -- who's a great bass player and opinion I greatly value and respect -- suggested I go the power amp route. His thinking is that I can get all the tones I need via the Pod, but all I need to do is power the thing. I'd be looking at a QSC power amp (mainly because I can a fantastic deal on a brand new one), but I'd like to hear the pros and cons from you folks regarding Head versus Power Amp. Never having used a power amp in my rig, I guess I'm just a bit naive about these things.

Thanks in advance for your input and help.

Gregg

alembic76407 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2003, 02:00:07 PM »

Gregg, you owe it to yourself to try a Mesa/Boogie 400+ with your rig. I have 2 friends that sold their SVTs after I loaned them my Boogie, with 12 power tubes, lots of headroom

David T

dnburgess · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2003, 03:42:50 PM »

Gregg

There is a recent thread on the pros and con.s of various solid state power amps, so I won't go into that.

Regarding the choice between integrated amp and power amp, the criteria for me boiled down to:

1. Sound: Highly subjective. I've hear/read nothing but good things about the Mesa 400+. I have an old all valve Bassman which weighs an absolute tonne (or ton) - which brings me to...

2. Weight: My QSC PLX + Alembic F1-X is a fraction of the weight (14kg/30lbs). I can take it on a train in a roller rack with an Acme B1 and my bass and have an awesome sounding rehearsal rig. The QSC PLX range goes up to 1100 Wpc into 4 ohms - weighing 10kg/21lbs.

3. Versatility: An integrated amp is what it is. You can do more with a pre power combo - e.g. run a small mixer into it for a pa at smaller gigs, run true stereo for spacy chorus effects, etc.

4. Reliability: Theoretically a well built solid state amp should be more robust than a tube amp.

The most important of these, of course, is sound - if you want the full bodied sound of lots of power tubes, nothing else will do. Technically that doesn't resolve the integrated / separates debate as you could use a tube power amp like the Aguilar D728 for an unusual twist - solid state preamp and tube power amp - the opposite of the usual combination.

David

kayo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2003, 05:31:08 PM »

Gregg -

What you are asking is truly one thing that each of us must ponder somewhere along our path as a bass player. However, it must be mitigated by each individual's personal constraints and preferences (ie - color, size, weight, cost, tonal shaping capabilities, etc). Needless to say, and hinging on your own personal philosophy -the best we can each hope for is to be true to our opinion of what setup can best accomodate the 'ideal' sound for me? It's a lot like asking is a pre CBS fender a better instrument than an Alembic? Depending on who you ask - you'll get a different answer, and even for those that answer alike- their motives will likely be different.

If you are a purist, or are partial to the tonality of tubes, then you are halfway to your answer. If you are less of a purist, or are not as partial to the peculiar tonality of tubes, then you are likely to be more receptive to what solid state is capable of delivering. Then of course there is the option of the new hybrid amps that integrate a tube preamp section with a solid state power section.

I have no absolute truths that I can share with you because this is such a subjective issue. All I can say is find out what your budget is... that will set much of the purchasing stage for you. In my case, I don't particularly care for the tone of all tube drive sound... but I also don't care for a solid state only sound either - so following the logic of many recording studios these days that use all digital recording gear (outboard gear) with Militarty Spec Type A Tube circuitry in the signal path to compensate for the lack of warmth inherent in the original 'dry' signal, I have opted for a hybrid tube preamp/solid-state amp head (the Eden WT-800). It gives me what I would consider the 'best of both worlds' and the rest is ALL Alembic.

Also consider the portability of the unit(s) when making the decision.... for me that was a big factor. I have used all tube units before (Boogie - grew to hate it) and used all solid state units too (Trace Elliot - grew to hate that too). I changed basses, I changed rigs - and now not only am I happy for the first time ever, everyone that hears my rig can't believe my tone.

Best Of Luck!

~O~

sricabla · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2003, 07:22:04 PM »

For what it's worth...check out the Stewart World
1.2 or 1.6. 1 rack space, tons of power and only 11 lbs. Just make sure you have space above the amp for heat dissapation.oh and also an Acme Low B2.

dela217 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2003, 08:13:04 PM »

Gregg - I too used to have the GK head with the 4X10 and 1X15 cab. I did not like it at all. The sound was pitiful and lacked bottom end. Something about those speaker cabs I suppose. Get rid of those cabs!!

I still have the GK400RB head. It has been abused. Been all over the country. It is held together with duct tape and JB Weld. No kidding. I bought it new in 1986. It is 17 years old. When I am not using it, it stays in the trunk of my car. Year round. Summer heat and everything. I use it every weekend. And it has never broken. I now use it with a Bag End 2X10 cabinet on my small weekend gigs. It gives a tremendous sound. Lots of lush bottom end. I have used it also with Eden cabs......more great sound. Ampeg too. I wouldn't get rid of it if I were you. Definately not getting rid of mine!

BUT...I also have the power amp and pre-amp setup too. They both have their place. Right now I am using a QSC RMX 1450. For a preamp I am using a Furman PQ-3, until the right F2B comes along.

I think the power amp/pre-amp setup is great, but a lot of stuff to haul around. The GK400 is 2 space, fits in a shallow rack, and so far to me has been indestructable. Just my opinion I guess. I know if you need more watts the GK just won't do. But I find myself using the GK more than the power/pre setup with the 2 cabs.

It is the medium sized gigs that I use the power amp/pre amp. The small gigs the GK is perfect. Large gigs too. On large stages/gigs I just use the GK and 2X10 cab as a personal monitor. I do not try to fill a room with sound from my bass amp. That is what the PA is for!

slugbass · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2003, 01:51:27 PM »

Thanks for everyones input. Sadly, my 400RB seems to be on its last legs. I can be in the middle of playing when all of a sudden it seems as if someone has hit the -10 db switch. I turn the head off for a second, switch it back on, and it's fine...only to happen 20 minutes later. I'm leaning towards a power amp...either the Stewart 1.2 or the QSC RMX 1450. Just debating which one to opt for.

dnburgess · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2003, 04:05:49 PM »

Gregg

Why the RMX 1450? Sure, it only costs $400 for 450 Wpc/4ohms - but it weighs 40 lbs!

If you're looking at the Stewart 1.2, your budget is say $620, in which case the logical contenders would appear to be:

Stewart 1.2 400wpc/4ohms 1RU/11lbs $620
QSC PLX1202 325wpc/4ohms 2RU/21lbs $600
QSC PLX1602 500wpc/4ohms 2RU/21lbs $700

Your back & knees will thank you.

David

yahyabb · « **Reply #8 on:** May 29, 2003, 06:48:12 PM »

Try a Aguilar 750 Head with a El Wapo Cab. or a Bergantino Cab.

However Aguilar's DB 359 is the cream of the crop. 200 Tube Watts of Solid Funk. Good Luck

(Message edited by yahyabb on May 29, 2003)

(Message edited by yahyabb on June 02, 2003)

mattheus · « **Reply #9 on:** May 30, 2003, 07:19:05 AM »

In the past I've tried several set-ups for my bass-gear. Combo's, head + cab's, preamp+poweramp+cab's and nowadays I only use a bass pd pro in combination with an In-Ear monitoring system. In your case, you'll have to choose for what suits you best.
The advantage for using preamp+poweramp is, that you'll end up using a case in which you can also put several other stuff (i.e. wireless receiver, FX processors etc.) It's also pretty easy to swap things. Right now you can choose a small poweramp, later on you can replace it by a bigger one, without exchanging your preamp. And so you're keeping your own 'sound'. There are several poweramps on the market today (special made for bass ampification) which are only 1HE. (i.e. EBS) In that case you could keep in very compact.
The only advantage of a head is, that you just plug in and play. It's compact, there are loads of heads which have the right amount of power.
I would choose for a rack with your bass pod and a big power amp! And i would choose a lightweight amp!
Succes, and if you ever come over to play here in Holland, don't forget to give me a call. I want to hear what you've come up with.

Jan R · « **Reply #10 on:** May 30, 2003, 07:43:40 AM »

Hi Mattheus,

How do experience playing thru an in-ear system, without a bass rig behind you ?Which system do you use ? Do yo have in-ear custom made for you, or do you use standard 1 or 2way phones ? I always doubted if I could manage playing that way. Does such a system have a good low bass response ?

Jan

slugbass · « **Reply #11 on:** May 30, 2003, 01:24:06 PM »

I'm going with the Stewart 1.2

Got a great deal on it.

mattheus · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2003, 04:12:56 AM »

Hallo Zuiderbuur,
To be honest, nothing beats a bass rig. An in-ear system can't give the dynamics, the depths, warmth etc. that bass rig can give you. The main advantage of an in-ear system is, that you can move around the stage, and always have your sound with you. You also don't have to battle for the stage volumes. In Melrose (my band) we all use in-ear systems, and on our stage you can heard a needle drop ; ). It gives us extra space on the smaller stages, and it's very fast to built up. It saves storage space in our truck, and so on. But to play a bass on in-ear systems really isn't my first choice. I'm considing to use a small additional floormonitor/combo for a liitle more 'real' bass feeling on stage. I use relatively cheap in-ear phones made by Sony. I also tried the expensive ones, but they did not gave me the sound I wanted. The real expensive ones, the custom mades I haven't tried. I'm too scared that they will disapoint me.
Another advantage of in ear systems is, that you can always turn down the volume of that bloody guitarplayer ; )