Type of Finish in 1977?

[lbpesq]

What type of finish was Alembic using on Series instruments in 1977?  My ‘77 Series I 12 String has several finish cracks and I’m trying to decide whether to have Alembic do a restoration re-finish, strip and do an oil finish myself, or take Mr. McCartney’s advice and just “let it be”.   


Bill, tgo

[senmen]

Bill,
you should follow Mr. McCartney‘s advise!
A cracked finish will be much more fitting a vintage item like your gorgeous 12 string. 
Just my opinion. 

Greetz
Oliver (Spyderman)

[jazzyvee]

Here is My Series I bass 1980 before and after it was refinished by a previous owner, Roymus. I much prefer the current matt finish.
http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8329.0

[edwardofhuncote]

Conversation I've had Bill, indicate they were using a Sherwinn-Williams product called 'Polane' back then, though I'm not sure exactly when that stuff ran out. The short version is; as the formula for it changed, it bacame unsuitable, and they switched to the poly finish still in use today. I thought about 1979-80... happy if not eager to be corrected on the facts.

As I recall, "Big Irv" is a pretty close neighbor to my Series I, #77-621, (maybe a few dozen numbers newer?) which is also finished in Polane. Mine shows some checking, but not enough to consider a refin yet. Oil finish is a PITB, but would look mighty fine on that mighty guitar!

[mica]

Likely to be Polane, especially if checking is present. That's a polyurethane coating. The currently issued Polane is for metal finishing and is not appropriate for wood.

We had a lot of Polane when we switched over because of the formula change, but it was disposed of as it was having all sorts of issues.

If the checking has been there a long time, some deep oxidization discoloration may not be able to be sanded away on a complete refinish.

[lbpesq]

Gregory, do you know if stripping Polane is similar to stripping Poly - using a heat gun and scraper?  I actually enjoy doing oil finishes.  I use Tung Oil (I wish I could get my hands on polymerized Tung Oil - but the State of California has decided it is too dangerous for me to play with!).  I find the act of hand application and rubbing to  be almost meditative - I feel like I am bonding with the wood - something that just doesn’t happen with a rattle can or, to a lesser extent, with wipe-on Poly.

And Big Irv is 77-921, your’s kid brother.

Bill, tgo

[edwardofhuncote]

No idea, Bill... can't say I've ever fooled with it and knew about it. Polyurethane breaks down pretty easy though. Easier still I'd guess if it's already started.

#77-921... wow, 300 guitars later... that must have been a helluva year! I went looking through my files, and sure enough, I chanced to meet #77-954 one time, another medium-scale Series I with Peruvian walnut top and back. (and a great story!) Note the checked finish... this one is about guaranteed to be Polane too. I haven't talked to Doug in a while but I don't think he planned to change a thing. That bass was pretty special.

[lbpesq]

The checking is not like that often seen on old Nitro finishes.  The guitar was exposed to moisture and developed several long straight finish cracks as well as some pieces of finish breaking off the point.  Here’s some pics:

Bill, tgo

[gtrguy]

Interesting. My '76 has zero finish checking. Some do and some don't, I guess.

[senmen]

Bill,
well looking at that I understand why you possibly want to refin. 

Greetz
Oliver (Spyderman)

[edwardofhuncote]

Yeah, "Big Irv" needs some attention. I agree with Mica too, there'll be some oxidation to the wood underneath that degree of checking, but I wouldn't let it stop you. I also think it'll be less obvious with an oil finish applied over it, especially on the darker woods.

What a cool old guitar, Bill.

I wonder if it's a combination of factors that contribute to this... I'd guess a lot being environmental, all the way back to the application time. It does seem to be hit-or-miss on which instruments are affected.

[cozmik_cowboy]

  I use Tung Oil (I wish I could get my hands on polymerized Tung Oil - but the State of California has decided it is too dangerous for me to play with!).
Bill, tgo

Bill!  You forgot to remind to bring the polymerized stuff when I came out!
I'd offer to bring some when I'm back out there in Oct, but we're going to AK first, and I have my doubts about the TSA letting me fly with it.

Peter

[cozmik_cowboy]

And I wouldn't worry about the oxidation if it were mine.  I once pulled 30-year-old vinyl flooring & underlayment off a 100+-year-old maple floor; there too much water discoloration & dirt/rust in nail holes to sand clear off, but when the the poly covered it, it looked like an old Tele (I loved that kitchen!)
The finish is protection, and the cracks damage that - but finished-over oxidation would be character.


Peter