The Scroll Shop (Ed of H's Shop Thread)

[cozmik_cowboy]

If they made anything other than 12-string Dreadnoughts in Style 20, I've never seen one.

M-20 Steve Earl.

Peter (who understands your desire for a guitar you will use - but mourns the loss of a fine 12-string)

Well I'll be dipped in sugar. There it is - they did make something else. And I reckon Style 20 is actually an older, more obscure one from before 1898 too. They revived it briefly for this or that. Need to check the Book of Longworth for that. Cool.


Not a lost 12-string Coz, just dormant. My whole plan came together as a result of the desire to not destroy the original neck, specifically so it could be restored someday. 

In the immortal words of Emily Latella - "Oh - that,s very diffetrent.  Never mind."

Peter

[lbpesq]

A number of years ago I had a booth at the annual Three Amigos World Guitar Show in San Rafael.   Toward the end of the day on Saturday, just as the show was about to shut down for the night, a little old guy with a beat-up case with a rope handle came up to my booth and said some other vendors thought I might be interested.    He opened the case to reveal an old D-12/20 in what looked to be rough condition.   The strings were all rusty, the pick-guard was separating and curving away from the body, the entire guitar was filthy, and there was a chunk broken out of the top corner of the headstock.   I bought it for a good price ($400 or $500 as I recall).   On the way home I stopped by Guitar Center and picked up a 12 string set.  I figured I would clean it up, restring it, and bring it back to the show the next day and sell it.  I cleaned it up, lemon-oiled the board, and used my wife’s hair dryer to straighten out the pick-guard and glued it down.   After restringing it, I played it a little.  Senior Management listened to me play it and said “you’re not selling that guitar”.   Still have it.   It really is a sweet under-the-radar 12 string.

Bill, tgo

[edwardofhuncote]

I would love to see it, Bill. Next time you have it out, post a pic?

*Let us turn in our C.F. Martin & Co. bible to the book of Michael... where evidently he differentiates between the original (very) old Style 20 and Style 12-20. Learn something every day!

[cozmik_cowboy]

Having met Bill's D12-20 a couple months ago, I can attest to its awesomeness.

And thanks for the documentation, Greg.   I find it interesting that the original -20s were apparently fancier than the -21 style; strange.  Also, the later -20 is the onliest time I know of that they reused a style designation for different trim* - let alone a different body wood!

*OK, except dropping the herringbone from the -28s, and changing the -41/42/45 series from snowflakes to F-5 archtop-style hexagons & flowerpot to cruciform CMF.
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Peter

[cozmik_cowboy]

Allow me to correct myself, Greg; Steve's signature M was a -21, not a -20 as I mistakenly stated.

Boy, is my face red......

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Don't be red-faced on my account... I am so confused by the specs on all the artist signature models, that really, all bets are off on those. I went huntin' and there is even a John Mellencamp signature. Man, is that thing a looker. My Cousin Graham has an OM-30 Pat Donohue signature, gorgeous guitar. There never was such a creature made. Style 30 is one of the rarest, most obscure of all. I had the (nearly) unique pleasure of working on one; a 1904 Style 1-30 guitar some years ago. It belongs to a local artist, and S-O of one of our Honeytone Banjo clients. When she brought it to me, I had to have Mr. Longworth help us identify it, as there were no model stamps at that time, only serial numbers. (hers was a 4-digit...) Style 30 is nearly indistinguishable from Style 27, and both are fancier than Style 28. There is no known example of a Style 29. 


C.F. Martin & Co. is a funny bunch to figure sometimes. But they kept very, very detailed records. In the grand scheme of Martin guitars, my old D-12-20 is but a footnote. I had another gun-slingin' buddy of play it this weekend. He was also struck by the sheer volume it has. He agreed, the midrange will improve with the neck angle tipped back to drive the sound in. So far, nobody thinks it sucks as a six.   

[edwardofhuncote]

Working on a few wooden Christmas presents up in the Scroll Shop today, for friends and neighbors. At least the ones not on the naughty list.   

I have realized a couple things..  I have got to fix the dust collection system on my belt sander. My neighbors yappy dogs have now made the naughty list. And I'm out of earplugs and dustmasks. Y'all think about that one...

In pursuit of the Martin 12-to-6 conversion project; I called up Stew-Mac the other day (you can't really call them anymore... but I remember the good ol' days when you could) and ordered a matching set of ebony bridge pins, endpin with abalone shell dot inlay, and strap button. I pondered for a while on the tuning machines. These nickel Waverlys would be fine. But I just remembered what they came from... and they need to go with that guitar. It was recently gifted to a young lady who I have played bass with off and on for about 10 years, as an early wedding present. I got that guitar new, back in 2001, and immediately replaced the original tuners (these) and... well, I forgot about it.

Anyway, I'll return them to her, as soon as they vacate the trial run on this neck. Here's what will go on the new 6-string neck; I may swap out the ivoroid buttons for black.

[cozmik_cowboy]

You didn't get the full set from Stew-Mac, with the ebony-buttoned nickel Waverlys?

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Nah, I passed. I like the larger engraved nickel-plates of these 1919 reissues better. Those Waverlys are $uper-nice, if you get my drift Coz... I still may though.


Here's the coincidence; and why I had this odd set of W-16's for a slotted headstock in a drawer all this time. They came from a 2001 D-18 VS. My Dad gave me a set of engraved Waverly 3-on-a-plate machines for it right after I got it, and they were still on the guitar when I presented it to the aforementioned bride-to-be. They'd been on there so long, that it slipped my mind that they didn't come on that guitar. I don't want them back or anything, but I do want her to have the originals.


Here's the guitar, and those tuners. Note the similarities between this guitar, and my project in progress. 

[cozmik_cowboy]

Those Waverlys are $uper-nice, if you get my drift Coz....

Oh, yeah; when I had to replace the tuners on my old Alvarez, and again on the lower-end Yamaha classical the youngest gave me, I went  straight to their "Economy" line; did not pass "Waverly", did not spend $200........

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Years' End, Scroll Shop Update:

Well, another year is gone, and I have done very little in here. My 'Day Job' is such that I reached the last pay period this year with 86 hours of paid leave that could not be carried over into next year. According to the Payroll Pixie, I am a habitual offender of this policy... so I'm burning up as much time as possible this week and once again they are putting the overage into a bank of extended illness leave, which I will ultimately be using for another fusion surgery. So the leave time doesn't get "lost", just re-appropriated. The main focus of my work is turning from daily operations to the role of trainer these days, and that's how I hope to spend the balance of my time... (a little less than two years now) teaching the next generation of Water Plant Operators. Planned obsolescence.

Projects...

Fret Mill Music sends me upright basses for setup and usually just minor repair with some regularity. I have one in right now with a wonky fingerboard and a neck split to fix. I'll probably oil-treat the playing surface when I'm done.

Honeytone Banjos #27 and #28... both are awaiting final reassembly. I had tragedy strike on the neck of #28, and it was one of those things where I had to just disconnect from it for a while and then re-evaluate. I was so discouraged... but... it's only wood and time. I can fix it, but it just has not been a priority. (*the whole episode is documented beginning on page 18 here... makes me sad just looking back!) Anyway, the customer it's for is currently playing my ca. 1890 John Farris, and he ain't in no hurry to hand it off. The other one, #27 was a repair, that turned into a trade-in. Not sure what Dad wants to do with it. I finished the repair they asked for, but the re-assemble and setup work remains. All he said was, "let's hold off on it a while, they weren't going to like it, so I traded them another banjo..." Okay... I did a super-clean repair, and as far as I know, nobody has seen it but me... the whole thing was weird, but whatever.

My Martin 12-string D-20 conversion is full-steam ahead. Everybody who has played that guitar is blown away with the sound. So there are a couple decisions to be made about what degree to take the job to, but I definitely want to follow through. Right this five minutes, I am less bothered by the elongated 12-string headstock than I was, and have somewhat grown used to the chunkier neck. I could very easily decide to simply reset the original neck, and leave six tuning machines on it, which confines the scope of work to replacing the bridge and plugging/shimming/redrilling the bridgeplate. That's a relatively easy job. But the jury is still out. My buddy Ward hasn't weighed-in yet, and his opinion will carry the most influence. Maybe we'll still make a whole new neck, maybe not necessary!

I've got a couple cellos in here that need setting up... meh, nothing special. I had a wild notion of making one of them into a travel-sized bass. Then I realized it would be more of a conversation piece than a bass, and not that much of a conversation.

And some old friends just gave me a whole stack of wood from a closed down shop... walnut billets, several boards of mahogany, and more of cherry, a couple marked as ash. Theres some smaller boards of curly and some birdseye maple too. I just had time to sort and stack it yesterday.

I got enough Lowe's giftcards to buy a new ShopVac... mine finally died this year, so it's super-dusty in here. The Shop-Vac, doubled as my dust collection system on the belt sander... oh, well.

Maybe I will have more to post about this year. I sure hope to anyway.

[cozmik_cowboy]

. Right this five minutes, I am less bothered by the elongated 12-string headstock than I was, and have somewhat grown used to the chunkier neck.....confines the scope of work to replacing the bridge and plugging/shimming/redrilling the bridgeplate

At least amongst those of my age cohort, it was once common to buy a 12 & string it with 6 to get a wider nut - but I think every one I've ever seen rigged like that was a solid headstock (not that it would matter).  But (and keep in mind I'm no luthier) I have to wonder how one would go about plugging & redrilling bridgeplate and top; do tell.

I've got a couple cellos in here that need setting up... meh, nothing special. I had a wild notion of making one of them into a travel-sized bass. Then I realized it would be more of a conversation piece than a bass, and not that much of a conversation. 

Conversation piece?  Nonsense!  Just one of a number of acts doing just that: 

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Coz; Stew-Mac, ya' gotta' love 'em!

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-bridges/bridgesaver/

But (tootin' my own whistle here) loooooong before this clever invention, rather than risk a disaster trying to remove a badly worn, but stubborn bridgeplate, (please don't ask me how I know about this...) especially these giant rosewood ones found in early 70's Martin guitars, I found that if you had the bridge off first, (and usually it was already coming up) you could pre-shape and mark a very thin maple shim at the 1-6 pin holes for alignment, then glue it in place. After it set, you could fill all 6 pin holes with an emulsion of slow-set epoxy and dust from the sander. When the bridge was glued back in place, you were drilling back through essentially "new wood". I'm sure I wasn't the first knucklehead to dream up this solution, but I did arrive at it independently... did it dozens of times, including on my own 1950 D-18.

Then Uncle Dan over at Stew-Mac just one-upped everybody. It's a cool tool, and my buddy and mentor Ward claims to have made the initial investment back in just a couple jobs.

[rv_bass]

Greg, can what you described be used to fill a strap button screw hole and reset the screw that has come loose?

[pauldo]

Greg, can what you described be used to fill a strap button screw hole and reset the screw that has come loose?

Gregory knows best. 

Personally I have used wood dust with wood glue to fix problems just as you described (screw that would not tighten) just not on an Alembic.   I mixed up wood dust with glue, used a tooth pick and dabbed the slurry into the hole.  The intent was to fill the bottom of the hole 1/8” or so, knowing that incidental glue would end up creeping on to the sides of the hole.  Put screw(s) in and let the mixture set.