The Scroll Shop (Ed of H's Shop Thread)

[hammer]

Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a finger board that deeply grooved. Sort of looks like what my Bernese Mountain dogs have done to my flooring. I hope you enjoy planing.

[cozmik_cowboy]

I'm thinking if you plane those grooves out, you'll need to trim about an inch off the bottom of the bridge to bring the strings down within reach of the board......

Man, those look more routed than eroded!

Peter

[David Houck]

Yeah, that fingerboard is just a bit worn.

[pauldo]

So many questions about the Kay... 

Is that what playing rockabilly slap bass does to a fingerboard?
Multiple radius’s on the fingerboard?

[edwardofhuncote]

Hey Gang, sorry for radio silence... some stuff went ka-blooey at work. Had to be there a while. Here's some words I'll pass along that have come to mean a lot to me in the past few days. "...if you're not part of the solution, there's a lot of good money to be made in prolonging a problem." I didn't make it up or anything, so feel free to hurl it at a consulting firm of your choice.

The fingerboard. Yeah, this rosewood (it's Brazilian rosewood, or BRW over on the UMGF) is worn pretty severely, but I've actually seen them worse. It's the strings... they had a very abrasive, almost like roundwound wire outer winding that during 70 years just chewed its way in. They all will wear a fingerboard, even an ebony one, but these will wear it out faster than say, flat chromesteels. If you look at the close-up, you can even see the indentation of the windings.

This neck is also bowed pretty good. The relief is borderline at the point where I would remove this fingerboard, straighten the neck, rout a channel and inlay a carbon fiber (graphite) reinforcing rod, then reglue the board back on.

I've got options to weigh and pitch here...

1.) I could plane the bow out, removing the grooves at the same time. Faster, cheaper, totally acceptable fix, bass is 100% playable/saleable.

2.) Remove the board, straighten and reinforce the neck, reglue the fingerboard, with an added 1/8" rosewood shim to the bottom, then plane the grooves out. More labor intensive. Better fix. I'd probably do this if it was my bass. I doubt the added expense is worth it for retail.

3.) Rout channels and inlay some rosewood strips in the fingerboard, then plane the entire length, instead of a 'wedge' plane that only removes the grooves. (as in option 1) This is my least favorite, but just as do-able. Probably splits the diff between 1 & 3.

Like I said, it's a borderline case... I can work around an 1/8" of relief... this neck isn't a proverbial snow-ski. And with the synth-gut strings going on here, neither playability nor structure will be at risk. I'm mulling it over.

Meanwhile, the Gollihur Boys got my strings and replacement scrolls here in two days. And my old mentor and good buddy Ward Elliott is coming by the shop tomorrow night to check out that 1930 Martin. Y'all gotta' meet him.

[garyhead]

You know?  I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows (I'm assuming, since I don't watch television) but I find myself rooting for the Bass by the end of the repairs!  I imagine one day you will reveal to us that after one of your basket cases gets the "axe" (pun intended) and becomes parts / kindling, I will feel great sadness and loss.  The Scroll Shop is My reality show! 

[pauldo]

You know?  I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows (I'm assuming, since I don't watch television) but I find myself rooting for the Bass by the end of the repairs!  I imagine one day you will reveal to us that after one of your basket cases gets the "axe" (pun intended) and becomes parts / kindling, I will fell great sadness and loss.  The Scroll Shop is My reality show!

 
It’s one of my favorite threads also... I am waiting for the episode where you get an opportunity to win a week working as Gregory’s Assistant! 

[elwoodblue]

 

You know?  I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows  ...

Maybe Roy Underhill's Woodwrights shop?  ...any relation Greg? 

[edwardofhuncote]

  I'm glad for the forum here. This little writing exercise is as much a therapeutic journal for me as anything. I'm glad if it has some entertainment value too.

I didn't get much done last night... my buddy Ward Elliott came by to look at this little Martin. He agrees, it needs a neck reset, the bridgeplate needs patching, and the frets need dressing and/or replacement, and that for a 90 year-old guitar it is remarkably solid structurally, and sounds incredible. I expect he'll be working on it soon. Anyway, we just hung out and talked shop until late. Regarding the Kay fingerboard wear, his comment was: "dang - you could roll marbles down those grooves!" We talked a little about the aforementioned options for fixing it. I always appreciate Ward's ideas... that guy is a genius.

Here's one of his mandolins that was for sale a while back. https://themandolinstore.com/product/2008-ward-elliott-a-5-mandolin-sold/


Back in a day or so with updates. I need to buy a hairdryer for the shop. Think about that. 

[David Houck]

The back of that Elliot mandolin looks nice.

[edwardofhuncote]

I heard a gig report on the King Mor-Tone the other day... I gather it's doing well. The guy plans to play it out some, but it will mostly be his at-home bass. He has a new-ish Cremona I set up a couple years ago as his main gig-bass, but is fairly awestruck by his new/old 1938 American Standard bass. There's a lot of satisfaction seeing that one go back into circulation. And I feel good about the repairs too... they may have been unorthodox and downright counter-intuitive at times, but the main thing is, they worked. It's a playable instrument again.

I've had a stout beam of maple clamped to the neck of the Kay, trying to straighten some of the bow out of it, and it seems to be working... the past couple times I've checked, the relief is slowly decreasing. Don't think it will go completely flat, but I can definitely work with it. Haven't really done much else on it other than finish taking all the appointments off. I'll start planing the fingerboard this weekend, and repairing the chipped-out plywood edges. Got the strings and the scrolls on my bench, and a new length of soundpost. The bridge flattened out nicely in one night, clamped flatside down to the bandsaw table, so I'll re-cut and re-use it. The original rosewood nut is fine too, it'll go right back on. I'll polish up the original footrest while I've got it off the bass... should shine up nice. We'll get cranked up this weekend, then I've got some time off from Shawshank coming (not for good behavior!) later next week, so I hope to finish it up and get it back to the store.

Here's a really messy project I'm working on... this is that Epiphone Broadway carved-top guitar case I told you all about a few posts back. Man... I don't know about this one. I'm going by WoodCrafters Supply today to see if they have something to repair/replace all this rotten and missing plywood with. 

[growlypants]

Man, I see junk...and you see possibilities!

[pauldo]

And I feel good about the repairs too... they may have been unorthodox and downright counter-intuitive at times, but the main thing is, they worked. It's a playable instrument again.

I am impressed with your ability to MacGyver stuff.   
 

[cozmik_cowboy]

1) I'm with Dan; I see junk.  while a correct case is cool, that is only true if it does its job and protects the really valuable part of the equation.  My first thought on how to fix that would be "with fire", and get a new one!  Can't wait to see what magic you work this time.

2) Enlighten one whose instrument-interior knowledge is pretty much limited to fan vs. X bracing:  What exactly is a soundpost?  Where does it go & what does it do?

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Yeah, that case is pretty junky. The instructions I got were to make it serviceable if I could. I think I can. And that guitar is a weird shape... I'm sure somebody makes a hardshell case for it, but not easy to find. I picked up some 1/16" thick maple veneer yesterday at Woodcrafters. https://www.woodcraft.com/stores/roanoke (I needed some other stuff anyway... LOVE this place) If it can be cut to size and bent around the bottom of the case, I'll at least have something solid to glue and screw to. The velour case lining is actually okay. Some spray adhesive ought to hold it in once there's something solid to stick it to.

Soundposts. Members of the violin family have a wood brace under the bass side of their bridge, usually called a bass bar, or sometimes a tone bar. Under, and slightly behind the treble foot of the bridge is an upright spruce dowel called a soundpost. In addition to supporting the soundboard under tension, it also transfers the vibrations of the top to the back.

The hoity-toity violin crowd will tell you it's the whole ballgame, and who am I to argue really? I can tell you, replacing an old soundpost with a new one, properly fit and positioned makes a bass sound good. Sometimes it's a huge difference, sometimes it's a little, but it never hurts. Cutting a new one isn't any more complicated than a couple cuts with the bandsaw, shaping the ends with the sander, and final fit by hand. Like most things, I finish-sand them. The only tricky part is that the ends aren't flat/perpendicular cuts. Reason being; the tops and backs of basses are contoured... so the soundposts have to be fit individually to the instrument, and since this is purely a friction fit, the post held in place by string tension, it needs to fit pretty well.

I'll try to give you all a better idea of how this process works and the tools we use when I get to that part, but here's an illustration of how the soundpost, bass bar and bridge are oriented in relationship to each other in violins.