The Scroll Shop (Ed of H's Shop Thread)

[edwardofhuncote]

Paul has correctly guessed the next installment, and should win a matching zebrawood Spoiler to go with his Distillate! Good Call, Bro. Paul!   

What little bit of glue is left behind inside won't matter much to this bass... it was going to be messy no matter what, but to tell the truth, it's looking pretty good right now. I'll go ahead and show you all my transverse brace all clamped up. (the clamps come off tomorrow) As you can see, I got a very smooth, uniform glue joint all the way across. That was incredibly hard to fit! It seems to have pushed the top out enough, and I believe it'll add just enough extra rigidity to hold it under tension without having added too much mass to adversely affect the overall sound. (only one way to know I guess...) For what it's worth, I made the brace out of a good piece of quartered spruce, so the grain is supporting the load here too, by the way... just like the bass bar is. (or any other guitar bracing would be)

FYI- this procedure is not in the violin repair handbook... it was strictly seat-of-the-pants-do-what-you-gotta'-do fix here. This bass was getting saved here; the next option was a new top, which of course far exceeds the value of the instrument.

Here ya' go:

[edwardofhuncote]

Paul, I don't know if this is what I want to do with life when I retire or not. I will definitely be doing something else (for insurance) but my 30 years of public service are up in 2021, and I may end up full-time in my shop... who knows. My Dad is going to retire from his job this year and is making sounds like he may want to build some more banjos. I'd be tickled if that involved me again too. I have a pretty steady stream of work coming from a local music store, that could be more if I wanted it to be. This bass is one of their jobs actually. Plus I get walk-ins regularly. Over the years I've gotten a pretty good rep for setting up basses that play nice, and it gets around.

See, there aren't many shops that'll even take on a bass like this... it ends up with a bill that like I said, exceeds the value of the bass. But if you're willing and able to employ some radical ideas to save one here and there, and charge accordingly, I think there's an opportunity for me. Realistically I could turn it into a profitable thing, but for now I'm good just keeping it loose. Helps me support the habits y'know! 

Anyway, I appreciate the audience here. 

[cozmik_cowboy]

My Dad is going to retire from his job this year and is making sounds like he may want to build some more banjos. I'd be tickled if that involved me again too.

Now that sounds like a retirement plan!


Just the other day I was thinking (honestly!) "Those first 2 banjos by Greg & his dad looked really nice in that old thread; I wonder if they still do that, and what they'd charge for a 6-string version?"


Peter (for whom the question is still, alas, purely rhetorical - but by then, who knows?)

[soflbass]

You are a talented dude Greg!

[edwardofhuncote]

We've never built a guitar-banjo Coz, but there are a pair of cello-banjos in limbo-progress. I'd be all for making a large pot guit-jo sometime. 


I was just looking at #27 yesterday over at Mom & Dad's place... he's got it disassembled on his bench for some reason. It's a beautiful burled walnut banjo with maple and abalone inlay, maybe my favorite one we ever did. My only concern is that the shop wouldn't be big enough. I'm tooled up for working on upright basses, and there isn't a lot of elbow room when I have two or three jobs going on at once. If Pops gets interested in a comeback tour though, even a part-time one, we'll have to make some adjustments. I miss doing that team building.

[edwardofhuncote]

I call it a 'transverse arched brace', and it seems to be working... the top pressed back out to a smooth radius. 

Unfortunately, after taking the clamps off yesterday evening though, I discovered another de-lamination around the lower edge that required gluing and clamping overnight. Hopefully, barring any more of these, I'll be able to put the top back on this bass tonight, and be ready to set it back up later this week. I feel good enough about it to call and order a set of strings. This one is getting Eurosonic Lights, a braided tapewound string that does a good job approximating the sound of gut.

Here's the triumph of physics over nature... at least that's how I hope this goes! 

[hammer]

Following the repairs you do is  fascinating.  Here's hoping the work continues to flow in (at a reasonable rate for you to handle) and you continue to post.

I'm going to display my ignorance here of all large instruments shaped like violins but I'll ask anyway

1) Is the brace you added meant to be permanent or merely temporary to press the top back out?  Or is it the case that once a collapse occurs its likely to take place again unless there is some bracing added?

(2) What, if anything, is the additional bracing likely to due to the sound? 

[pauldo]

Brian I am interested in the answer to your second question also.

Gregory, you truly are a craftsman.  And a bit of Macgyver with the Transversed Arch Brace! 
Brilliantly creative and very functional.

[edwardofhuncote]

The brace will be permanent. Truth be told, you'd be hard-pressed to get it back out of there now. If I could have pressed the top out and made it stay some other way, that would have been better. This was sunken in a weird spot, and with all that de-lamination from being wet, I really had few choices. I thought about adding another layer of ply inside, but the 'how' of clamping a big piece of thin, glue-soaked veneer into place wasn't practical. My brace helps bind, as well as strengthen the arch. Tried not to over-think it. 

I don't think it'll have much effect on the sound. The brace is so lightweight (just a couple ounces of spruce) and covers so little of the resonating surface of the massive table, that I'm guessing it's effect will be negligible. But like I was saying, this is not a recommended practice... this is saving a badly compromised top, so if we gave up a little bit of volume or tone... it's gotta' sound better than it would have been. There's always the option of a pickup.

I was hoping to glue the top back on last night, but when inspecting the body and cleaning up some old glue spill, (plus the uhhh... mouse leavins') I found a seam separation in the lower bout and a nasty looking shear in the rib that I figured was worth fixing while they were easy to get to. Strings and a new bridge will be in tomorrow, I'll stick the top back on tonight.

More pics... that rib clamp jig is a piece of saran-wrapped foam sandwiched between two cauls. It doesn't have to be pretty, but I couldn't leave that jagged mess. 

I miss McGyver. 

[StefanieJones]

It's quite inspiring seeing these pics of the work in action. Thanks for sharing!  I love looking at this thread

[edwardofhuncote]

Those last repairs went well... the bass was finally ready to re-assemble last night. First, here's how that ugly, jagged place in the waist rib came together. I was pretty happy with that, so I finished cleaning up some glue, then using a palm sander, scuffed the whole inside of the body, then followed with a damp cloth. 

The top is solid now too... I put it in place to check alignment with the corner blocks and the neck and tail blocks, 'dry clamping' in place for a minute to size and position all my other clamping jigs. These are very important fit points, because as you can see, they make up the strongest glue joints. Remember up-thread I mentioned those wood pins at the neck and tail-blocks? This is why.    (they can either make this job easy, or make you use swear-words... )

Y'all hang on now... it's about to get sticky! I promise, next time you see this one, it'll look more like a big fiddle again.

[pauldo]

Ooh.

I should probably stop following this.  Seeing all the great pics and explanations makes me think I could take my doghouse apart! 


So with that in mind...


Gregory, obviously getting the top back on correctly is super important.  How did you get the top off with out ending up with a bucket full of splinters?  Gentle application of heat to the glue?

[edwardofhuncote]

I use heat, a set of seam separating knives, and water (or sometimes white vinegar) to break the glue joint down Paul, but if you look back up-thread, you'll see there are almost always some splintered pieces of veneer that hang on. It's not too big a deal on this one, as the top is going right back on where it came off. Oftentimes I'll pull (or peel) the larger ones and glue them in place to the top while disassembled.

I'm about to pull the clamping jig off where I glued the top back on last night. Nothing fancy about these... they're just some threaded rod and cork-lined plywood cauls I made to fit generically around basses. Again, maximum pressure applied to the blocks is crucial. I use the cam clamps or screw clamps for that.

I'll spend the rest of this evening cutting a new bridge and soundpost, and re-stringing, and will tweak the action to final tolerances after it has a day to settle. Also, a little shameless plug for Gollihur Music. https://www.gollihurmusic.com/ Mark Gollihur is one of my main suppliers of upright strings and parts. It's great dealing with people you know personally, who know you, and know what you need. Good guys there.

[edwardofhuncote]

Happy to report, if the transverse brace had any effect at all on the sound of the bass, it's insignificant. This one is a thumper - it rattles the windows in my shop!

I got the bridge feet and soundpost cut and fit perfectly, and put it under full string tension. Got the action darn close, but it still needs some adjustment. I'm tired though, quittin' for the night. I'll watch the top for any sinking over the next couple days, do my final clean-up and tweak the action in, then this one goes home. Maybe Saturday. Or Monday at the latest.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Nicely done, sir!

These threads of yours put me in mind of a page I used to have bookmarked (alas, it was taken down a while back so I can't link it) showing a step-by-step photographic record of rebuilding a Martin M-36 that had gotten run over by a car (or, given its "before" state, more likely a truck).

Peter