The Scroll Shop (Ed of H's Shop Thread)

[edwardofhuncote]

I thought this might be fun...

My upright bass shop is pretty busy lately, and could be busier if I wanted it to be... maybe one day. Not sure if I want to take it there, or keep it a side-hustle, but sometimes I get into fun and/or interesting projects up there, mostly upright basses, but sometimes something totally random walks in. Sometimes I end up working several days and nights on a pile of junk. (I'll only post a highlight reel of these... ) Rather than start a new thread every time, I thought maybe what I'd do was just update this one with some of my usual ramblings, intertwined with some pictures of ongoing projects.

The first installment is almost ready; customer is coming to pick up his bass tomorrow night. Hang on... 

[StefanieJones]

That looks nice!

I was thinking about getting an upright again.. until I saw what they go for these days, lol.

[peoplechipper]

sounds like a good idea...I might be doing a new side hustle or new job too, maybe going back to the bicycle industry...that'll be weird...

[edwardofhuncote]

First up was this 1949 Kay M-1 that came in a couple weeks ago with some seam separations, a deeply grooved fingerboard, and desperately needing a good setup. Other than that, it was in remarkably good condition, never having had the typical broken neck. More importantly, it never got a bunch of hincky repairs done that had to be undone first. That's what tends to happen with many of the jobs that come my way... mine is the shop of last resort in a lot of cases. Not so with this Kay... it was a joy to work on one that wasn't a basket-case. I'm already done with it actually, and it's new owner is coming to pick it up later this evening, but here are a few pictures of job. Admittedly, I coulda'-woulda'-shoulda' taken more 'before' pictures, but I hadn't thought about this at the time.

The seam separations were an easy repair... it took me longer to find the right size clamps and some cauls than to squeeze some glue in. That was an overnight fix. You guys didn't really want to see glue drying didja'? I should've snapped a couple pictures of the clamping works... I have some made-up just for this job. Again - next time.

The real work here was in planing and dressing the fingerboard. You can mess up pretty good here... and end up chasing a buzz around or worse, creating one where none existed. I have a series of sanding beams with adhesive-backed sandpaper in different grits that are used for this job. After truing the board up, I like to wet-sand rosewood or ebony with 1000-grit, then burnish with some 0000 steel wool then oil the fresh bare wood before applying a couple coats of finishing wax. It makes for a nice glossy look with a durable surface. This fingerboard by the way, is a particularly pretty slab of Brazilian rosewood, typical of the time. Kay had some nice stuff back then! *Important safety tip - don't breathe this dust.

After that, it was time to set it back up, cutting a new bridge and soundpost, and restringing with a new set of D'Addario Zyex. (Zyex is a goid pizz/arco hybrid set that isn't stoopid expensive) I always save the two bridge feet, the bridge top, and the soundpost remnant for future shims or reference. (this habit is just another OCD Ed of H. thing... you'll see a lot of that happen here, but it's nice having the exact peices of wood to shim with if and when you ever need them)

Like most old basses are by the time they get to me, the endpin was missing the rubber protector, plus this ones thumbscrew was cross-threaded and useless. I keep a drawer of these items and some other common hardware I often have to replace stocked in a variety of sizes.

Finally... time for a test drive. This bass turned out super-nice. The sound is very balanced for a laminated bass. Sometimes these are a little bit lop-sided, tone-wise, but this one is strong on all four strings, no wolfs or dead spots. I love the burst finish, especially on the M-1 body with full violin style points.

Here is a good resource on Kay basses, if you're interested in reading more... http://www.kaybass.com/ ...they've been around since 1937 and since October 1969, still are being made under the name of Engelhardt-Link just outside Chicago, Illinois. https://www.linkbassandcello.com/

Stay tuned... next up is a European upright with a loose bass bar and subsequently, collapsed top. It isn't pretty, but it is classy, and I believe it has a lot of potential.

[CaseyVancouver]

Good to hear you are expanding your upright bass work. Uprights seem to always need attention.

Just to toss this out there...
After 45 years of playing bass tuned in 4ths I have switched my classical upright over to 5ths. Why, you keenly ask? I’ve been playing a lot of classical chamber music with an orchestra and the music is a true double of the cello part, going lower than E.

Most bassists use an extension (or 5 string in Europe) to go down to low C. In 5ths tuning from low to high my strings are C,G,D,A. The scroll of my bass is a bit forward and installing an extension means cutting the scroll. I chose to relearn the fingerboard. The bass sounds beautiful in 5ths, super low and super high. The high A sounds a bit more cello like now.

It certainly has been a challenge to relearn all the notes, but I have adjusted. My jazz upright is still in 4ths tuning, I prefer it that way for jazz.

Here is an example of upright bass played in 5ths tuning.

Best wishes for your upright bass repair work Gregory.

[edwardofhuncote]

Hey, great to see you here again Casey V!

I'm working on the next installment now, a Czechoslovakian with a loose bass bar and fallen top. Maybe ready to post tomorrow. 

I play just enough mandolin and cello to be dangerous to myself, so the fifths tuning isn't completely foreign to me, but... hmm. I may have to think about that a little. I can see the advantage for chamber music, and arco segments in general, but it might present few unnecessary challenges for folk musicians.

[CaseyVancouver]

You play some mandolin and cello ...cool!

The tuning in 5ths imho does not work so great for jazz or folk with bowing specific strings as you lose that pizz growl and definition of the note, and guitar is in 4ths. Red Mitchell fans may argue it. 5ths work great for classical bowing, and the whole orchestra is in 5ths except for basses. Good bowing strings are very different than good pizz strings, really adds to the difference. I use arco specific strings for classical. That’s one reason I have kept an upright in 4ths for jazz, with good old growly Spiro strings.

Speaking of mandolin (which is tuned in 5ths) did you know that a left handed mandolin (or violin) is the same note locations (but sounds reverse) as a right handed bass tuned in 4ths? This odd brain twisting fact came to me while exploring the bass in 5ths fingerboard.

[mario_farufyno]

Cool debate, so great being part of this community.

[edwardofhuncote]

True story... when I first started playing mandolin, it occurred to me- "this thing is upside-down and backwards!"

[edwardofhuncote]

So, I started on the European upright (turns out, made in Czechoslovakia) with the collapsing top a couple nights ago... as suspected, the bass bar had come loose from the top on one end allowing it to sag, but that was only part of the story, which I would find out later. There are some other troubles within - nothing insurmountable, but the top of this this bass can't support string tension without some supplemental structure work.

To start with, members of the violin family all have this in common; a brace of wood glued, or sometimes (less-often) relief-carved, running longitudinally, passing underneath the 'bass' side of the bridge. There is an upright dowel called a soundpost, that supports the treble side, and also transfers vibration to the back. Without these in place, string tension will eventually collapse a top.

I've included a few pictures of some tools I use for the various steps of the job at hand. Don't even ask how I find anything in that workbench drawer... I just know whatever I want is in there, and keep looking until I find it!

Nothing too complicated here... inspection mirror, flashlight, flexible light, seam separation knives, an old steam iron, and the two small bottles are water and white vinegar. (breaks down glue joints marvelously) And check out this tiny little ball-peen hammer. I used it to finnesse-tap out the tailgut nut in the picture there, which is Step 1 in top removal. Next, I start easing the top off with the knives. This one, like a lot of European basses, had a wood pin at each end. Sometimes these have to be cut or drilled out. I was able to work around these.

Inside, some mouse and spider... uhhh... evidence of residence. And some pretty serious delamination. The layer the bass bar glues to is loose. This bass has been in water. Plywood doesn't respond well to being wet. And I just got into a bigger job.

Fear not... repairs are already underway... more later...

[pauldo]

True story... when I first started playing mandolin, it occurred to me- "this thing is upside-down and backwards!"

Ditto




Gregory,
I believe you mentioned you learned your rebuilding/ refurbishing skills from your father... it really looks like an absolutely fulfilling career.  Appreciate you sharing the photos and dialog.


Side note:
My grandparents on my mom’s side were from Czechoslovakia, my grandfather played ukulele, harmonica and loved to slam away on his piano... Eubie Blake was one of his favorite pianist.  As I type this I sit next to his piano with the cigarette burn on the bench seat.

[garyhead]

OK.....so It's an Upright Spyder Bass?

[growlypants]

 

[edwardofhuncote]

Good Morning & Happy Easter. I'm not in the Scroll Shop today, but I worked until late up there several nights this week, and the Czech bass project is moving right along. Here's the latest:

Other than some incidental de-laminations around the outside edges from removing the top, here is the worst part... you can clearly see a waterline where this bass has been wet. The plywood layers began to separate, and the one directly underneath the bass bar let go. The top then began to sink. Bad as this looks, I've actually seen a lot worse. It looks bad now because it's all loose and jagged... gimme' a little while to work on that with glue and clamps, and a few press-cauls. While working on that, I'll also be gluing down a few loose places around the edges. (I love those little clothespin clamps for that) Now check out the Before & After pictures. I've still got some work to do... this is just 'after' the clamps came off. Time to clean up the mess and begin reconstruction. Note to self: Be careful with sharp things!

One other issue that needs to be addressed before we put this bass back together... this top has sunken in a weird place. I don't want to completely remove the bass bar and re-press the top, and don't really have the means to do that if I wanted to. I just need to put about 1/4" - 1/2" of arch back into this top down in the lower bout... I may have already thought up a solution for this. More on that later, but keep this in mind for the next segment. The artist is going into hiding and the structural engineer is about to take over... gears are grinding!

Aww... what the heck - here's a teaser. I still have to test it. It'd be a shame to find out it wasn't sufficiently rigid after putting the top back on the bass.

[pauldo]

Gregory,
I find this all very interesting and fantasize for a late life career change.  Thank you for sharing so much.

Are you going to add a perpendicular brace to push the back bow on the top out?
Does leaving residual glue on the inside (where there is no concern for aesthetics) impact the vibration/ tone?