Author Topic: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?  (Read 669 times)

jazzyvee

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Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« on: April 01, 2019, 05:30:53 AM »

Virtually ever gig I go to these days the bass player has a tone that sounds like scooped mids.
I'd just like to know what you guys think the reason is for this?


Is scooping mids a good thing, bad thing or just a current fashion or heaven forbid, have a lost the mids in my hearing :-)  ???
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jacko

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 05:49:20 AM »
it's been very popular with some players since the days of the Manchester Bass days.  I first noticed it with people demonstrating Markbass kit e.g. Hadrien Feraud or Jeff Berlin and it put me off Markbass for years (I've since found MB can produce any tone I choose so it must have been the players).
Nowadays I tend to associate it with bands I don't like - currently Joe Dart and Vulfpeck spring to mind.

If anything, in the heavier rock bands I play in these days it's best to push the mids so that I can be distinguished above the guitars.

Graeme

keith_h

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 08:04:04 AM »
I was always under the impression that the scooping the mids trend came out of the popping style of play as a way to accentuate the pop. Whether it becomes a problem or not largely depends upon the the band you are in. In a trio or where the bass is the lead instrument players don't tend to share the same scale ranges so the loss of some mids doesn't really hurt things. In playing situations where there is more overlap cutting to much of the mid will tend to make the bass disappear. You'll get the feel of the low end and clacking of the highs but the bass will be missing any definition.

I also think some of the smiley originates with players that don't understand how to EQ their rig. Instead of tweaking the problematic 200-300 Hz range they just cut anything and everything in the middle while boosting the ends. Even when the player is good at EQ'ing their rig it is not uncommon they EQ it for them on stage as opposed to further back in the hall. When running bass through a PA just shift this problem to the sound engineer though it is more an issue with new or friend of the band types behind the desk. 

Glynn

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 03:29:00 PM »
I used Trace Elliot for many years as a non-slapping bass player.  I never could sort out the graphic equaliser.  Now I use Genz Benz and Genzler where the EQ is so simple - no mid-scoop pre-set and on the Streamliner 900 there are the 3 valves. I now have such limited options - increase gain and volume of gain to get warm growl and leave the mid at one 0f the three options -  absolute bliss. Alembic Orion 4 at flat and half volume.  Much easier and a good solid sound and enjoyment of playing.  Wish this was around 50 years ago.  Thank goodness for simplicity!!
Glynn

peoplechipper

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 12:11:10 AM »
I scoop the mids a bit on my Acoustic 370; it sounds weird and mushy if I don't. It's only a little bit and I do use significant overdrive, but it makes the difference between peoplechipper and peoplegrinder...Tony

jazzyvee

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2019, 01:13:42 AM »
I used Trace Elliot for many years as a non-slapping bass player.  I never could sort out the graphic equaliser.  Now I use Genz Benz and Genzler where the EQ is so simple - no mid-scoop pre-set and on the Streamliner 900 there are the 3 valves. I now have such limited options - increase gain and volume of gain to get warm growl and leave the mid at one 0f the three options -  absolute bliss. Alembic Orion 4 at flat and half volume.  Much easier and a good solid sound and enjoyment of playing.  Wish this was around 50 years ago.  Thank goodness for simplicity!!
Glynn
For most things I too enjoy a simple setup and use my F1-x preamps with a power amp. There are a couple of rehearsal studio's I use in town that are owned by reggae bands and the graphic eq's on their bass rigs are almost always set a to an L shape so the sound is really thickly bottom heavy and woolly but perfectly understandable. I find graphics less user friendly than a few well chosen knobs like on my mesa boogie walkabout.
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jacko

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2019, 01:29:53 AM »

 I find graphics less user friendly than a few well chosen knobs like on my mesa boogie walkabout.
[/quote]

hah!  I find the parametric Eq on that range of amps to be way harder to understand and use than a graphic.  Now I use either the Mesa titan or a Markbass LM800 - both have 'simple' bass / low mids / high mids / treble . 

Graeme

(my home hi-fi has a volume control and nothing else)

adriaan

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2019, 03:54:27 AM »
On a neck-through instrument, there is an inherent mid-scoop, or so I have been told.

sonicus

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2019, 12:03:12 PM »
Depending on the acoustics and geometry of a room I often usually roll of the lower spectrum of my instrument and bring up the lower midrange  in an effort toward  sonic articulation and definition and a clean growl rather then a flatulent boom .  That seems to me to be " My Way "  ;) I can get technical but will just leave it at that  to refrain  from technical specs this time .  It seems to work for me from what I hear from listeners and from live recordings with my methods ,  playing style and hands .

mario_farufyno

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2019, 04:14:24 AM »
I do scoop lo mids as a way to improve bottom clarity, since the dreaded 200~400 range can make the bass sounds really muddy by itself (and particularly on some problematic room acoustics) and also clear some room to other instruments in the mix (in fact, almost every other voices in a band needs some space between 100~400 since "our lower mids" can be where their fundamentals have to sit in).

Rockers used the smiley graphic Eq for ages, but this is not exactly "scooped mid" (is more like no mids at all). Seems to me that this is due to gear misuse, too. But it clearly helps to get the bass away from guitar path, though. Now, we are seeing rock guitar tuning getting increasely low, so maybe bassists are loosing too much mids for "our sake". Not intending to be disrespectfull, bass can ends sounding almost as a kick drum (just thud and kick) on some metal records.

Slappers also need to clear some lo mids to make lows more clear and defined, the question is wich mid will be tamed (since 200Hz is very different from 400Hz or 800Hz or 1600Hz, and each one to the others) and to what stance, if you don't want to end with no meat in your bass bones.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 04:29:02 AM by mario_farufyno »
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2019, 04:25:22 AM »
I noticed some differences between bolt on and neck through, as neck throughs seems to permit more low end to blossom while bolt ons seems to be naturally more mid oriented. So is almost a temptation scooping mids out of a fender like bass just to even tonal range a little.

To make things a little more confusing, it seems to me that any PU "sounds" scooped like if it comb filters string tone (comb filter scoops several harmonicaly spaced frequencies). Think on that "hollow" P bass tone. And this comb filtering scoops can get complex when summing to a second PU. So every electric string instrument sound "scooped"  in a way.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 04:31:39 AM by mario_farufyno »
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2019, 04:40:09 AM »
If it is not due to a room acoustic issue (in this case, FOH sound engineer problem), I try not stealing too much further than -6dB at any frequency as a general rule. So I'm not sure of being one of those mid killers you are noticing around.
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jazzyvee

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 11:00:28 AM »
It's not a complaint about scooping or that I don't like it I'm just trying to understand why it seems so prevalent and am I missing something by not embracing it.
Usually I get complimented on the fact that that my bass sound is extremely well balanced across the frequency range. Occasionally I get told it was a bit thin at the top when slapping high notes on G-string when I check back it is when I have too much Q on with the filters(s) fully open. I do know that I never need as much q as I think I do but in the heat of a song you can overshoot a bit.
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StefanieJones

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 11:21:11 AM »
Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it. 

I usually just keep everything around 12 oclock and play a bit with the VLE and VPF knobs on the Markbass to get the sound I like.

bigredbass

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Re: Why is scooped bass so popular these day?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2019, 10:03:33 AM »
I think it's because lots of amps have some sort of 'Contour' (or similarly worded device) that essentially is a 'Dial-A-Smile':  The deep end and the highs come up, and the mids back away.  IME, unless you have VERY good FOH, pronounced mids onstage are useless at the expense of anchoring the band and re-inforcing the kick drum.  Recording is easier if you want mids to be more apparent.

I once saw a great bassist with a Modulus Five and killer rig onstage here in Nashville, and he had a wonderful, 'oingy-boingy' mid-heavy tone, perfected by careful compression in his stack.  Sort of that fretless/back pickup sound, with a fretted bass.  It was a smaller room, and the band was totally floating away in four different directions as there was no 100 hz anchor apparent in the overall sound of the band, no anchor at all, nothing for the other instruments to sit upon.  Never forgot that.