Author Topic: Alembic Fx-1 preamp  (Read 1613 times)

hammer

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2019, 01:30:51 PM »
The Quilter Bass Block 800 Edwin mentioned is just ridiculous.  There is no way that little thing could provide me with the power I need.  It's impossible, it just could not suffice...(keep repeating to self over and over again especially when I'm lugging my 30 plus lb Yamaha power amp places).  ;)

StephenR

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2019, 02:30:03 PM »
I don't like the form factor of the Quilter bass block and have no interest in the type of preamp controls it has. I know you can use just the power section but if I am going to bring a rack mounted preamp to use with the bass block I prefer to have a rack mounted power amp, too. Seems like a great and well-liked product, though, and I can see why it is popular. There are certainly a ton of good class D options for lightweight power amps these days and no need to lug something heavy unless you want to.

RBW, I am also curious why you don't just get a power amp to run with your F1-X? I am a huge fan of Entwistle's playing but agree with you that the sound of his bass through all the effects he was using late in his career was awful. IMO the best stage sound he ever had was in the 70s when he was playing Alembic basses.

RBW

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 07:24:33 PM »
Didn't get it. If you already have your preamp, why buying full amps like Orange? Wouldn't be better and more affordable geting just 2 power amps or even one stereo with independant channels?

OK.. got the idea of simply a power head, but the OB1 300's are really just that unless you want to blend which is after the preamp.  I was hoping I could adjust the sound to each cabinet before I plug them into the FX -1 though I could've made a mistake with what you're saying....  I was hoping to be able to adjust each amp to each cabinet when I do the bi amping?  Isn't this possible by using the Fx -1 or is that basically the preamp that I'll be using for both?  It will still work but I get what you're trying to tell me...

I just had the Ashdown JE 1000 I could've used for that I guess... I guess I couldn't quite figure out the idea.... hmmm...  Was Entwistle using that 'Stramp' as really his preamp or something, I just figured he was trying to get each hi sound and lo sound that he wanted from the Sunn Coliseums and they putting them through slaves to increase the power and using the Stramp to split them and make them stereo?

Told you I'm lacking in tech...

Richard

RBW

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2019, 07:28:45 PM »
 I think I may have wasted a lot of money on two OB1 -300's by thinking that I could get the sound I wanted on hi and on low and then use them both with the FX-1!  I'm starting to think that the only adjusting will be from the Fx -1 as the preamp... is that right?

Thanks,
Well, I learn by moving on... The Orange OB!-300 sounds great already... can I do anything to split the hi and low and adjust them individually?

Richard

mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2019, 04:59:40 AM »
Don't get me wrong, any amp is a tool and wasn't trying to criticize your quest. I know Entwhistle concoted some complex gear setups over the years and I'm not really savvy about those (in fact I don't even like using multiple cabinets myself and gave up using crossovers and bi amping for years now). Maybe Orange can fit nicely in the pursue of that Ox's distorted tone because I believe FX1 is not intended to solely overdrive that much. I just tend to avoid stacking eq section over another eq ection, that is why I've questioned.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 07:00:22 AM by mario_farufyno »
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2019, 05:05:53 AM »
On other hand, some guys here are really experts on him and his gear. It may be usefull doing some research on old threads...
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2019, 06:07:24 AM »

OK.. got the idea of simply a power head, but the OB1 300's are really just that unless you want to blend which is after the preamp.  I was hoping I could adjust the sound to each cabinet before I plug them into the FX -1 though I could've made a mistake with what you're saying....  I was hoping to be able to adjust each amp to each cabinet when I do the bi amping?  Isn't this possible by using the Fx -1 or is that basically the preamp that I'll be using for both?  It will still work but I get what you're trying to tell me...

Told you I'm lacking in tech...

Richard

Richard, when we think about a Guitar (or Bass) Amp, in fact we are talking about a combined preamp section followed by a power amp.

The first one is intended to raise your bass signal up to amp's standards and usualy offers a Eq section, so is here where you level your Bass and shape your tone (distorting, if you will). After that you send this signal to the Power section* to pump it up enough to move a loudspeakers at the cabinet. So, here is where you basically define the final loudness, but it matters to tone, too, as you can push tube power amps into overdrive and combine with preamp saturation to get some expressive distorted tones. So, any amp really are Preamp + Power Amp.

* Some guitar amps also enables you to get the preamp signal and send it to an outboard gear, like delays or reverbs, to get the processed signal back just before delivering it to the power amp.

So, when you get the FX1, you get a clean tube preamp with 3 band Eq. It has a effect send/return and 3 outputs, one full range that you can feed one single mono power amp and two splited outs, if you wish to send lows aparted from the highs to two power amps (2 mono or one with 2 channels, like in a stereo amp).

ps.: Forgive me if I sound "professoral", my english is poor and I hope that I'm not getting you wrong. Please, my intention is just to help you and don't want to bother you teaching basics.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 07:06:00 AM by mario_farufyno »
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rv_bass

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2019, 06:15:58 AM »
It sounds like you now have a Genz Benz, Ashdown, a couple of Orange amps, and an F-1X. I’m not sure what you have for cabs.  I think you could probably find what you need by pairing the F-1X with a power amp.  But, rather than spend more money, it might be good to take a little time, a month or two, to explore various combinations with what you have and see what you come up with in terms of tone.  It takes a while to find the tone you want, and then fine tune it (which in itself seems to be a never ending process...”searching for the sound...”). 

There is a Who tribute band that practices in the room next to ours (which can be a challenge when trying to rehearse jazz tunes with the melodies of The Who thundering through the walls :)  ) and the bass sounds great.  I’ll ask him what his set up is.

mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2019, 06:49:26 AM »
So, consider that FX1 needs some power amp companion. They can be tube or solid state. Tube are great for tone since they can sound very clean but also  can be overdriven to give us the beneffit of harmonic enhancement and some kind of compression. The "problem" is tube amps usually not excell 200 Watts power, while you can get thousands with a solid state amp.

This is a important choice to make, because solid state amps have the power but some may lack those tone qualities at different degrees (some FET amps can react similar but how close is  controversial). For live acts at large venues it may be obligatory, though.

Another thing to consider is distortion since we are talking about the Ox and the FX1 is more on the clean side of the tube spectrum (as far I recolect, I don't own one). So I imagine you'll have to get a device to distort the bass signal or to push FX1 tubes into overdrive, like a pedal before.

And here is where I stop because distorted tones are very personal, there are several ways to get it (fuzz, distortion, overdrives, boosters, preamps and even power amps) and they tend to kill lows (that is why bass pedals enables to mix the dry signal to the processed). Chris Squire and Geddy Lee used Rick's individual PU outputs to send the bridge pickup to a guitar amp while sending the neck one to a bass amp, to get the drive with no low end loss. With the FX1 you can try distort only the highs sending them to the Orange, you just need to know if the crossover output matches the OB1 preamp input, since it may be too hot and the Orange doesn't has independent power amp input (in fact, that model have solid state power amp so you couldn't beneffit from its preamp overdriven tube tone, anyway), but you can use the double output your bass has, too. You just need a Y cable.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 08:00:50 AM by mario_farufyno »
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2019, 07:25:27 AM »

Well, I learn by moving on... The Orange OB!-300 sounds great already... can I do anything to split the hi and low and adjust them individually?

Richard

OB1 seems to have a line out, so you can try getting the signal and send it to a crossover. You will still need the power amps...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 08:32:07 AM by mario_farufyno »
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mario_farufyno

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2019, 07:54:44 AM »
I'm with Rob, you already have some fine amps at your disposal (that Ashdown looks perfect to your needs and those Orange must sound great too) but the harder part is to learn how to master Alembic's huge tonal range. That takes time and we all had to spent some nights fiddling and researching before feeling confident. I'm cool with the fact that I'm still learning what I can do with my Rogue and seems that it will go on and on. May sounds silly but I'm geting convinced my Alembic teaches me new things anytime I let it, everytime I'm ready for a new lesson... Ha! now I'm really digressing, sorry.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 07:15:00 AM by mario_farufyno »
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keith_h

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2019, 06:56:06 AM »
I think you are getting confused with terminology. Your Orange, Genz-Benz and Ashdown integrated heads contain both a preamp and power amplifier components in a single unit. The F1-X is strictly a preamp and requires a separate power amp or power amps if you wish to use the crossover. 

If you did not want to use the tone controls in an integrated head some will let you use a separate preamp by being able to plug into a line in or effects return. Both of these usually insert the signal after the built in tone controls. Some heads like your OB1-300 do not have either of these so should not be used with a preamp like the F1-X as they just won't play well together do to signal levels and the effect of multiple tone stacks.  For a preamp like the F1-X I like to use QSC PLX (now PLX2) amplifiers. They aren't too heavy and due to having two discrete power sections are very flexible since they can be run in stereo, parallel input (mono input, each output to own speakers) or bridged mode for more power (mono). If I were to use an FX-1 in a bi-amp setup I would run the amplifier in stereo with one side of the power amp receiving the highs and the other side of the amp receiving the lows. Whether it would work for you depends a lot upon the speaker systems you use.

Based on what I read about the OB1 it is not a true bi-amp head so you will not be able to take the input signal and have the highs sent to one speaker cabinet and lows to the other. What the OB1 does to route the input signal to two different internal tone shaping circuits and blend them back together before feeding them to the power amp stage. I would equate it to working more like an effects loop. Moving to the stereo bass question from your other thread. Since you have two OB1's and I presume two speaker cabinets as well you might wish to try using those with your bass in stereo. From my experience this had much better results than a bi-amp setup. This setup would allow you to set the tone for each individual pickup and mix a bit of grit in with the bridge pickup as Mario discussed in one of his updates. Another bassist who has used a guitar amp to get some grit from the bridge pickup was Stanley Clarke. I think it would also let you get some of the Entwistle tone if that is what you are looking for.
 

RBW

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2019, 12:31:03 PM »
O.K.
Now I bought the Crest Audio FA901 BUT... there are no 1/4" inputs in this!!!  How on earth do I connect my power head to the FX - 1?

Any takers on that one?

Thanks,
Richard

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edwardofhuncote

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Re: Alembic Fx-1 preamp
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2019, 07:10:33 PM »
I use a similar cable to connect my F-1X to a Crown XLS 2000, I forget the brand, but should be commercially available at any decent pro-audio shop.