Author Topic: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences  (Read 2422 times)

DanFrank

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2018, 11:25:06 AM »
Thanks again Mica!  I'll take that advice and maybe try to move the pickups on the treble side a little closer and see what happens.  I also tried medium gauge strings in the past but they are a bit harder on the fingertips.  I use the D'Addarrio Pro Steels.  I typically turn the filter wide open and Q is on and it gives me chime-like highs and a deep low-end, but the G and sometimes the D can feel a bit "thin."  I didn't want to move the Pickups for fear of negatively affecting the B & E, which are crystal clear with a deep low end! :-)  Thanks so much for your advice!

jazzyvee

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2018, 03:23:02 PM »
I have done exactly what you are suggesting there Mica on my 4 string Elan which has two sets of P-style pickups. Lifting the treble side pickups closer to the string as I was finding when playing with the filter closed or nearly closed there was a significant drop in volume as I moved up the neck on the D and G strings compared to the A and E strings. Not good with reggae..... It is less noticeable with the filters more open or when on the bridge pickup only. I only needed to do this on the neck pickups and i ended up lowering the E & A a bit as well and now I have the right balance for everything. I have it in mind to go slightly heavier with the string gauge next time I change them on my Elan.
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DanFrank

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2018, 04:04:00 PM »
Jazzee, did the E & A output become lower by the same adjustment you made to raise the output for the D & G-strings?  That's exactly what I DO NOT want to happen and why I didn't make a modification yet until I understood it better.  I would like to raise the output of the D & G while keeping the other stings unchanged.  But I assume that changing one side only and keeping the other strings unchanged may not be possible.  What is the largest gauge string that would be recommended for the D & G?  I have been using the D'Addario Pro Steel light gauge, which are .065 & .045, respectively.  The other three strings are 080, .100, & .130.  Is there a thread here that one would recommend for pickup height adjustment?

mica

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2018, 07:17:18 PM »
That's the wonderful thing about changing the pickup height - it's 100% reversible! You can fearlessly adjust at will, and put things right back where you started. You can mark the current level with a piece masking tape and find the original setting again quite easily.

I think you would notice the cutoff of the filters with any pickup height setting, Vince. When you have the frequencies dialed down, and you play high notes, some of them are higher than the cutoff frequency and get rolled off.

jazzyvee

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 09:35:00 PM »
haha mica, I found that one out mica so ended up making changes and checking things until I found a level that seemed balanced based on where I set the filters. It's really something I needed to spend a bit of time with, changing the height, check the filters and string to string balance and adjust again where needed. Before I moved anything I did measure the height of both sides of the each pickup so I could indeed go back. It can be time consuming to find the right place but it was worth it.
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bigredbass

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2018, 10:22:59 AM »
I custom ordered the green Elan with the idea of it being a take on the rage about Sadowsky, etc. Jazz basses.  Thus, the 'white woods' (ash wings, maple neckthru) to keep it in a Fender-ish wood menu.

I've always preferred a P/J combination to the doubale Jazz pickup layout.

The bass turned out magnificently once Susan translated what I was after into Alembic-ese, if you will, and it was her idea add the Sig electronics into the build, and as always, her advice was impeccable.  It does some more choice vs. a traditional vol/fade/tone, and it was a conscious decision to be very Alembic and use filters instead of active bass/treble.

It turned out exactly as I envisioned, and it had some heft to it, but was by no means too heavy for me, IIRC it weighed around 10.5 pounds.

After a lifetime of clubs, drunks, druggies, and disappointments, I no longer gig, and I frankly bought it just for me, kind of as a reward for going through all that crap for all those years.

Three years ago, my wife required back surgery which ultimately was unsuccessful, and has led to her being partially disabled.  Our income was cut in half suddenly as a result, and although we smartly had very little debt, and I had great medical insurance, nonetheless for a year we were really scratching to find our way through, and I sold both Alembics.  I couldn't complain, I'd owned them both virtually for free, and sold both thru the Club.   The idea of paying 8 months mortgage vs. keeping them and really struggling was not even a question, so off they went, and that was that.  She comes first.

In terms of a low B, the green axe had the best low C's and D's I ever heard (your results may vary), I'd hear that low 'beat' of the first several harmonics.

The other Alembic was a five-string Spoiler with FatBoys, though it obviously had AXY's originally.  Versus the P/J, I'd say the AXY's or FatBoys have more of a 'modern' tone to them, more in the vein of Barts or EMG's.  The AXY's (and by extension, the MXY's) in comparison to FatBoys I'd describe this way:  AXY's remind me of utterly clean studio monitors, while FatBoys would seem more like very good hi-fi speakers, maybe not as brutally precise, but with a slightly more visceral rendering, maybe just a bit of a Music Man vibe.  Both are very good, and very clean.

Those vs. the P/J setup:  The P/J is a very clean and strong Alembic version of a tone you probably know already, far more traditional than the AXY presentation.

In my experience, all of them were silent electronically.

Best of Luck.

DanFrank

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2018, 11:14:24 AM »
Thanks for the input Joey!  Interesting background on the bass and hope your future outlook is happy for you and your wife.  I'm thinking about it but unsure if I truly like the transparent green finish.  My '86, 5-String Spoiler is doing the job but I want to find another 5-string Alembic with upgraded electronics and I would prefer the dark woods, walnut, coco bolo, with a maple/PH neck.  I would also take LED's as a great upgrade for my aging eyes but that's not going to drive my decision.  My Spoiler is a 32-inch scale but I wouldn't mind going to the long scale with the longer upper horn of the Elan.  The spacing is very close on that Elan, which is good for me because I play mostly with a pick.  I think it's going to sit at that price for awhile, so I'm thinking about it for now.  Thanks again!

jazzyvee

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »
Whenever that bass green elan has come up for sale i have considered giving it a stable home. Yummy to the max! Interesting the p pickup having the bass side further back than the treble.
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bigredbass

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2018, 11:40:41 PM »
It was a conscious decision to use the white woods in conjunction with Fender-ish pickups to yield essentially a very good Jazz tone, on steroids, thus the Fender woods of maple and ash.  The ebony fingerboard adds zing on top of that to boot.  As such, it's not as sophisticated a tone you see in other Alembics with all the 'brown' woods and wide-aperture pickups, it wasn't designed for that.  It cuts thru any mix, and the whole idea was to be THE Fender that Fender never built, and with Ron's electronics, achieve that familiar tone on a much more sophisticated level with more control, and it delivers it in spades.  It's one man's idea, and not for everyone, but it certainly fulfilled the ideas I had.

I always prefer tinted axes.  As amazing as the woods that Alembic uses and understandably look funny in anything except clear, ultimately to me, they . . . just  . . . look brown.  Though I would make an exception for an Alembic translation of those amazing all-Koa Taylor acoustics.  Maybe one day . . . . .

mario_farufyno

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2018, 02:58:59 AM »
Jazzee, did the E & A output become lower by the same adjustment you made to raise the output for the D & G-strings?  That's exactly what I DO NOT want to happen

Hey Dan, anytime you got D and G louder, E and A will be "lowered" in a way. It is a balance issue but is what you got if you really want them to be closer in output, don't? If your brother grows taller you'll not look as big as before, even if you didn't change. But even if you have to lower the bass side it will changes nothing if you raise your overall volume to compensate the signal drop. That is why I opted to not use trimpot gain or bass master volume fully open, I can always compensate differences like that (and having a handy boost to solo at fingertips, too!). You can use a boost or simply compensate any change at amp's (or pedal) input gain.
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DanFrank

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 05:19:49 AM »
Thanks much for your input, Joey and Mario!  I would love to play that bass first before buying but they are too far from my location.  I really love the electronics package on that bass.  In the meantime, I will try adjusting the pickup height to raise the level of the D & G and possibly increase their gauge size as well.  I learned a lot on this thread and I appreciate it very much!!

mario_farufyno

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2018, 02:45:39 PM »
Halving PUs distance to strings from where it is now (or PU side relating to the other) may increase the signal in +6dB. Any doubling gives you around -6dB.
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jazzyvee

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2022, 11:48:16 AM »
This is back on sale again on Reverb
I do wonder what it is about the bass that it doesn't find a permanent home.

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hammer

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2022, 12:27:42 PM »
I wholeheartedly agree with Mica that tilting the PUs should be tried but that strings and string gauges make a LOT of difference.  Not all G-strings are made alike and its worse with C-strings. I use flats most of the time (TI) and love the Thomas-Infeld E, A, and D strings. However,  I don't appreciate the G at all. On all my basses it just sounds dead. Tilting the PUs has helped a bit with loudness but I'm still experimenting with various G strings and different string gauges to try to get closer to the sound I want to hear.

FC Bass

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Re: PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2022, 03:03:30 PM »
I do wonder what it is about the bass that it doesn't find a permanent home.
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