PJ vs. MXY's tonal differences

[DanFrank]

Would some experienced Alembic players please comment on the tonal differences they've noticed in these pickup sets on earlier bass models (Spoiler, Persuader, Elan), and particularly how they affect a low-B string?

[jwright9]

You still searching for your unicorn?

[DanFrank]

Yes Janine!

[edwardofhuncote]

Dan, I can't really comment on MXY's, but I can give direct comparison between two very similarly constructed Alembics. My Custom fretless 5-string was built around the critical specs of my Persuader 5-string. (remember that one?) Both have the 32" scale, 3 purpleheart neck laminates, mahogany body core, and maple tops. The electronics are similar too, though my Custom fretless has an added bass and treble boost/cut.

What's different is the pickups themselves. The '89 Persuader of course has the stock P/J set. (new replacement set from Alembic in 2014) The '17 Custom has an AXY in the neck position and am AXY 'FatBoy' in the bridge position. Both pickups are offset from the extremes by 5/8", which places them a good ways apart.

These two basses sound remarkably similar. In fact, I can make them sound indiscernably alike. But I'm not so sure it has that much to do with the pickups. I think it's a lot of things... the placement of them, the inherent nature of that P pickup and its location on the top, the electronics, the strings I use, (TI Jazz Flats on both) just too many variables to list.

All things being equal though, I have two Distillates, a fretted and a fretless, made within a couple years of each other, though one has a walnut top and the other, bubinga, their neck recipe' is the same, they are electronically identical... and they sound nothing alike. Go figure.

FWIW, I don't think there is a huge difference in the magnetic properties of MXY's vs. AXY's... I seem to remember reading here somewhere it was a matter of accomodating the wider string spacing. I'm less sure how they stack up against the Fender-shaped pickups. Hope some of that rambling is helpful. 

[jwright9]

Yes Janine!

Clever, I like that.

[DanFrank]

Hi Greg!  Thanks so much for the detailed description!  Those are very nice basses.... love that custom fretless!  As I understand it, the MXY is narrow and the AXY is a wider aperture.  I was looking at a 5-string Elan that has Signature Electronics and PJ pickups and was wondering how different the tone may be compared to MXY's.  The woods and finish of this Elan are not my preference though, so I'm not jumping at this point.  But it has a lot of attributes that caught my eye, especially the Signature Electronics.  I would imagine there is a lot of tonal flexibility with that package and it shouldn't be a concern that the pickups are PJ vs. MXY.

[jwright9]

Dan,
If this is the one you are referring to...

https://reverb.com/item/14824441-alembic-elan-2006-green-transparent


I can tell you that is the same one I was selling last year that you decided against. Only difference is that I was asking around $2500 where as the current seller wants $3500. Looks like the bass has traded hands at least a couple times since I sold it last spring. The current seller is not the person I sold it to.

[edwardofhuncote]

Dan, that is "Tiger Emerald" http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8537.0, built for Club Member, Joey (BigRedBass) he's not as regular around here anymore, but you might be able to get a message to him for some firsthand info on that bass.   

[DanFrank]

That was very helpful, Greg and J9.  I'm surprised it is changing hands so much.  After Joey's post, I wonder why he parted ways with it, as the same is true several times in the last couple years?

[edwardofhuncote]

Joey had a family medical issue that kinda' forced the sale of both his Alembics. In my conversations with him, I gathered he wasn't gigging out much at all, and could use the $$$ more at that time. Not sure about why anyone else would part with it. (other than for obvious profitable purposes...)

I do remember Joey telling me she was heavy.

Anyway, he's a class-act of the highest order, and if you're interested at all in that bass, he'll give you the unvarnished details. I wouldn't hesitate to email him.

[jwright9]

Not actually that heavy compared to other similar Alembics.
She weighs in at 10.6 lbs. Not that bad all things considered.

Here is the build sheet:

[jwright9]

There are at least 4 people here that have owned that bass.
1. Joey
2. Joe
3. Me
4. Spencer

[mica]

MXY and AXY are identical internally - think of an MXY as an AXY in the smallest possible case. An AXY shell can hold a wider aperture FatBoy pickup, which is essentially an AXY wound on a larger Series I/II magnet.

Both the P and J pickups have a narrower aperture than the MXY/AXY pickup. We tend to like wider apertures for pickups as they have the biggest "eye" looking at the strings' movement. 

All of our pickup/electronics systems are quite revealing of what the wood is doing before any electronics interact with it. So the choice should primarily be based on the primary neck wood (Maple is brighter, Mahogany warmer), if Ebony is int he neck (longer fundamental sustain). The neck is about 75% of the tone from the woods in our instruments. Even though the neck is bossy, the body woods matter too. Don't want to derail this topic into a discussion on the tone of wood, so I'll just summarize saying that you should like how the bass sounds unplugged, because you are going to get more of that when you plug it in.

[DanFrank]

Thank you for clearing that up, Mica!  I have a much better idea of the differences now.  My Spoiler neck is a 7-piece maple/purple heart with a mahogany body and walnut top wood.  I love the tone and it gets many compliments, especially on the low B & E strings, but I sometimes feel that the higher strings don't cut through the mix as much as I'd like.  That's why I was hoping to find a Signature Electronics package and close to the same wood combination or similar.  I already checked the gain pots in the Spoiler and they were already set at their maximums when I bought it.  I was thinking about adjusting the height of the pickups but have not touched it yet.  Thanks again!

[mica]

Well, you might try tilting the pickups on the treble side so they are closer to the strings or you will not get more out of the higher string relative to the lower strings. You might try heavier strings on the D and G. What you are hearing is likely what every pro I have ever talked to tells me - that especially the G string is avoided because it just can compete with the heavier strings. There's a tradeoff in keeping the tension more even, which yields the results you are observing, or using heavier gauge (and likely higher tension) strings that have more mass to produce the desired sound. I know some players that avoid the G string if physically possible, and strike it harder when unavoidable to even things up.

The trimpots are for the gain across all the strings, so they will not change what you are observing, just the highest available volume of it.

I don't actually think you will find any difference with any electronics set - you are just getting really good at listening. This is a blessing and a curse!