Why Does Joel Selvin Hate Phil & Jill Lesh?

[lbpesq]

So I'm about 2/3 of the way through Joel Selvin's new book "Fare Thee Well: The Final Chapter of The Grateful Dead's Long Strange Trip" and I can't hold it in any longer:


IT IS NOTHING BUT AN OUT AND OUT HIT PIECE!


Phil is painted as a money hungry meglomaniac control freak who consciously manipulates the Deadheads for his own financial gain.  And his wife Jill, often referred to as merely "a waitress" makes Yoko Ono look like Mother Theresa.   She is continually described as a screaming maniac trying to take control of the band, in one scene yelling at Bob Weir, Bill Kreuztmann, and Mickey Hart "you don't know anything about the Grateful Dead".   Selvin claims that Phil didn't want to play with the drummers in Furthur becase he didn't like Billy's drumming, thinking he couldn't keep the beat!  And, according to Selvin, Bobby couldn't hear himself sing because Phil insisted on playing too loud.  (Gee, Joel, did you ever hear of IEM's and personal mixes?). The book is the most obviously biased rock boigraphy I've read since Don Felder's "Heaven and Hell: My Life in the Eagles".  At least Felder was clear that he didn't like Henley and Frey and explained why.  Given what I've read so far, I wouldn't be surprised if in the last 1/3 of the book, I will read that the evil Leshes are also responsible for global warming, the volcano eruption in Hawaii, Donald Trump getting elected, and the heartbreak of psoriasis!


Shame on you, Joel Selvin!  You obviously have a personal animus towards the Leshes that has terminally infected your work. 


Bill, tgo

[David Houck]

I'm guessing the author must be this guy.

[lbpesq]

Yes, Dave, that's him.  He was a very well respected rock critic for the San Francisco Chronicle for decades.  A couple of years ago he wrote an excellent book about Altamont.  I've always liked his writing and respected his opinions.  This new book comes out of left field.  I wonder how much he wrote and how much of the book was more influenced by his co-writer Pamela Turley, of whom I have never heard.

Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

Sounds like that one goes in the "crap" pile with Rock Scully's ("Jerry Garcia made me take heroin & ruined my life") and Cindy Brightman's ("I saw the Dead for the first time in '92 even though my sister did their lights, but they weren't as '60s as me because they didn't cut sugar cane in Cuba") turds.
Thanks for the heads-up, Bill.

Peter

[David Houck]

From Rolling Stone's review of the book:


"Selvin’s account of these events doesn’t depict Phil and Jill Lesh in the best light, but the author is under no delusions that they’ll be happy with his book. “I’m sure they’ll be outraged by it,” he says. “There’s a society called the Society for the Victims of Phil and Jill Lesh. I’m on that list.” Selvin believes they turned on him many years ago when he wrote a review of a Phil Lesh Christmas show that poked fun at the event. “Everyone told me my death sentence came when I said that Phil looked like Ichabod Crane [from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow],” he says."

[edwardofhuncote]

I read a little bit about this book over on TalkBass. It didn't sound like the Phil Lesh I've read about here and elsewhere. And as someone who's only recently become interested in the Grateful Dead, I don't think I'll be reading this account.


Always with a grain of salt on rock-n-roll tell-alls... I read Ken Caillat's book, "Making Rumours - the inside story of the classic Fleetwood Mac album" a couple years ago, and didn't care much for some of the darker content. No idea how true it was.

[David Houck]

As for Pamela Turley, she's written one other book, "The Thinking Woman's Guide To Men".  A brief bio I found doesn't suggest she previously was involved in the music scene or the San Francisco scene.  My guess is that Selvin hired her to help with the research and writing, but that it's his book.

There's also some youtube videos of the two of them doing a bookstore promotion for the book.  I haven't watched any, and don't know that I will.

The premise of the book is certainly interesting; what's happened with the Grateful Dead since Jerry's passing.  But if it unfairly and inaccurately portrays events, then I'll probably pass.  I have plenty enough to read around the house anyway.  And besides, I need to spend more time practicing.

[StephenR]

I have always considered Joel Selvin to be a bit of a hack. But, despite the obvious "bottom-feeder money grab aspect" of the book, and the overblown hyperbole, I read a comment from Dennis McNally where he claimed the majority of the book is basically true. Even if his comment was accurate, though, that does not excuse the tabloid trash style of writing. I had already put this book on my "must to avoid" list.

I love the Dead's music but the "loving hippie band of brothers era' for the band ended a long, long time ago and long before Jerry's passing. The fractures only got worse after that. I like to remember the music...

[hieronymous]

The only thing I can add is that at Bananas at Large a couple of weeks ago when Bob Weir did an appearance to talk about his new pedal, he said something to the effect that "when you have a bass player like Phil Lesh, you may have to turn your guitar up to the point of feedback, but with a regular bassist you probably won't have any problems." There's probably some truth underneath, but strongly affected by this writer's personal animosity.

One thing that strikes me as weird is that Phil has been playing lots of free shows at TXR (admittedly with expensive beer) while Dead & Co. merchandise is expensive compared to Phish for example.

I won't be reading the book - thanks for the heads-up Bill!

[edwin]

I think there's some truth in there, most likely, but maybe overblown. People I know involved in the scene, including members of his band, have not been all that positive about Jill's "management style" (there was that episode where Kimock left mid tour over some nonsense that got pulled by Jill who was managing the tour). But to vilify them outright, I think is beyond. Phil clearly has his heart in the right place and my friends who have played with him have nothing but good things to say when it comes to his love of the music and his appreciation for the contributions of his bandmates. Calling him money grubbing seems over the top. He plays accessible shows, including free ones, while Dead and CO was $150 a ticket for a stadium show. I also think perhaps he has no clue when he opines about Phil's opinion of the drummers (a drummer friend whose band were the Friends on a few shows was told in no uncertain terms never to bring a cowbell on stage).

Phil also got used to playing loud stages, so I can see why he plays loud. After all, he once said that his hearing was his gift to Jerry. They all played crazy loud. However, when I've seen him at TXR, he didn't seem all that loud. And Dead and Co could certainly stand to turn up Oteil. Maybe Bobby just doesn't want to hear that much bass.

I also have to ask if there ever was a "loving hippie band of brothers era" for them, really. From all accounts, it always seemed like a bit of a intense scene where personal feelings took second place to a lot of other stuff (Firing Pig and Weir back in the day wasn't very band of brotherly. Good thing they were too stubborn to leave.). Obviously, I wasn't there, but it seemed like it wasn't for the faint of heart.

It's funny, when I was watching the Saturday night stream of Dead and Co, I was thinking about when I first started seeing them in the 70s and how I kept thinking "OK, now I really know what this is! It's that!" and then would be proven wrong. What they are all doing now is still what this is and there is never a way to get an all encompassing view that would provide enough perspective to pass any kind of judgment on any of it. I can't tell the 15 year old kids seeing Dead and CO now that they missed it, because people were insisting back in 1976 that I totally missed it and there was no reason to go. Some of what I heard was as much "it" as what they played in 1967.

I did enjoy the book about Altamont, but maybe that was over the top, too.

[lbpesq]

" (a drummer friend whose band were the Friends on a few shows was told in no uncertain terms never to bring a cowbell on stage)."

So that's why I've never heard P&F play "Don't Fear the Reaper"!

hehehehe

Bill, tgo

[glocke]

So I'm about 2/3 of the way through Joel Selvin's new book "Fare Thee Well: The Final Chapter of The Grateful Dead's Long Strange Trip" and I can't hold it in any longer:


IT IS NOTHING BUT AN OUT AND OUT HIT PIECE!


Phil is painted as a money hungry meglomaniac control freak who consciously manipulates the Deadheads for his own financial gain.  And his wife Jill, often referred to as merely "a waitress" makes Yoko Ono look like Mother Theresa.   She is continually described as a screaming maniac trying to take control of the band, in one scene yelling at Bob Weir, Bill Kreuztmann, and Mickey Hart "you don't know anything about the Grateful Dead".   Selvin claims that Phil didn't want to play with the drummers in Furthur becase he didn't like Billy's drumming, thinking he couldn't keep the beat!  And, according to Selvin, Bobby couldn't hear himself sing because Phil insisted on playing too loud.  (Gee, Joel, did you ever hear of IEM's and personal mixes?). The book is the most obviously biased rock boigraphy I've read since Don Felder's "Heaven and Hell: My Life in the Eagles".  At least Felder was clear that he didn't like Henley and Frey and explained why.  Given what I've read so far, I wouldn't be surprised if in the last 1/3 of the book, I will read that the evil Leshes are also responsible for global warming, the volcano eruption in Hawaii, Donald Trump getting elected, and the heartbreak of psoriasis!


Shame on you, Joel Selvin!  You obviously have a personal animus towards the Leshes that has terminally infected your work. 


Bill, tgo

I've heard stories about Phil and Jill over the years...Frankly I don't really care about the internal politics of the band members.  Just keep the music coming.

[glocke]

I think there's some truth in there, most likely, but maybe overblown. People I know involved in the scene, including members of his band, have not been all that positive about Jill's "management style" (there was that episode where Kimock left mid tour over some nonsense that got pulled by Jill who was managing the tour). But to vilify them outright, I think is beyond. Phil clearly has his heart in the right place and my friends who have played with him have nothing but good things to say when it comes to his love of the music and his appreciation for the contributions of his bandmates. Calling him money grubbing seems over the top. He plays accessible shows, including free ones, while Dead and CO was $150 a ticket for a stadium show. I also think perhaps he has no clue when he opines about Phil's opinion of the drummers (a drummer friend whose band were the Friends on a few shows was told in no uncertain terms never to bring a cowbell on stage).

Phil also got used to playing loud stages, so I can see why he plays loud. After all, he once said that his hearing was his gift to Jerry. They all played crazy loud. However, when I've seen him at TXR, he didn't seem all that loud. And Dead and Co could certainly stand to turn up Oteil. Maybe Bobby just doesn't want to hear that much bass.

Honestly, for me the loud/bass up front in the mix is part of the G.D. sound and is really one of the things that drew me to the band early on when I was given bootlegged shows from older Deadheads "wow, a band where I can actually hear the bass in the mix" is part of what my thoughts were and thats why to this day I largely prefer the 70's era GD over the 80's era (there are other reasons, but not being able to really hear the bass in many of those 80s shows is a turn off). 

I also have to ask if there ever was a "loving hippie band of brothers era" for them, really. From all accounts, it always seemed like a bit of a intense scene where personal feelings took second place to a lot of other stuff (Firing Pig and Weir back in the day wasn't very band of brotherly. Good thing they were too stubborn to leave.). Obviously, I wasn't there, but it seemed like it wasn't for the faint of heart.

"loving hippie band of brothers era", when I was young and naive this is what  my impression of the whole scene was, but as I got older, attended more shows, and than got even older still and got involved with music and interacted with "peace loving hippies" I largely came to view that whole thing as nothing but a myth.  Sure, there are some folks out there that fit that description, but by land large that scene is a microcosm of the real world which is more or patchouli scented less sink or swim.

It's funny, when I was watching the Saturday night stream of Dead and Co, I was thinking about when I first started seeing them in the 70s and how I kept thinking "OK, now I really know what this is! It's that!" and then would be proven wrong. What they are all doing now is still what this is and there is never a way to get an all encompassing view that would provide enough perspective to pass any kind of judgment on any of it. I can't tell the 15 year old kids seeing Dead and CO now that they missed it, because people were insisting back in 1976 that I totally missed it and there was no reason to go. Some of what I heard was as much "it" as what they played in 1967.

I did enjoy the book about Altamont, but maybe that was over the top, too.

Even though most of the songs are played way too slow for my liking, I do like Dead and Co, but I really haven't heard anything yet that can be described as "it".  There is also the scene to consider..Granted I didn't start seeing the G.D. until the early 80's, but the scene back than was a large part of the experience and that same thing really doesn't exist today, and I think it really even stopped existing sometime in the mid to late 80's.