Can't intonate B String - saddle maxed

[edwardofhuncote]

I'm a little embarrassed that this hadn't occurred to me. Setting up upright basses, I do know about witness points. It can be a big problem when restringing with a used set of strings after cutting a new bridge. If that little kink (former witness point) falls on the business side of the bridge, all kinds of sonic wackiness might happen. I always advise my clients to go on and spend the money for a new set of strings while it's on the bench anyway, but at close to $200 a set, it can be a tough sell. 

But all that said, I would never have guessed seating a string into a saddle would make 20 cents of difference in intonation... live and learn. 

[hieronymous]

I just ordered new strings for my Alembicized fretless Guild - going to go through and re-read the materials that Tom posted and basically the entire thread before I restring! I've been playing bass since 1983 and am somewhat neurotic about strings, especially since I started playing again in about 2002 after a 7 year break. If something goes wrong, it can be a $30 to $50 mistake! So thank you very much for this thread and information! I had never heard of witness points either, though it makes a lot of sense.

The only thing is, the Guild harp bridge system is pretty fragile - don't want to push too hard on those 40 year old rosewood saddles! I do have some metal replacement saddles, but switching to an Alembic bridge system sometime down the line is definitely an interesting possibility...

[tomhug]

Two thoughts: (although I can't yet claim to be an expert on witness points, I have researched them extensively since my epiphany and even talked to a luthier a bit more about them).

Being vintage, and a 4 string, the effect of witness points on your Guild will be a bit less extreme than that what I experienced on the heavy .130 gauge B-string.

That force exists already on the rosewood saddles of your bass simply by being strung up to tension, although caution is certainly warranted. I think the main idea is to remove any latent arc of the string, so the minimum force to do this will accomplish the setting of witness points.

I believe, but do not know, that technically speaking, the straightening of latent arcs that setting witness points provides would eventually take place just by having a string up to tension. Setting points just hurries the process. They do it on mandolins, some of which also have wood saddles.

That Guild of your seems like a cool instrument. A vintage shorter scale in that vein or maybe a Starfire is on my "wish-list"

[hieronymous]

Thanks Tom - definitely helps! I think I'm a little confused in my mind too with my 5-string Stanley Clarke - I think this will definitely help with that too. I custom ordered LaBella strings for the low B and this info about witness points is very relevant (though the ball end is tapered so it won't be as essential).


As stressful as strings can be it feels so good when you find the right ones!


Speaking of string changing, this old Allan Holdsworth video spends the first minute or so showing him changing strings on his Charvel guitar - plus it has Jimmy Johnson on bass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_yFFsNtc