Author Topic: Stereo Output - Why? (Read 424 times)

mikedm · « **on:** November 17, 2003, 10:58:10 AM »

When would stereo output from your bass be an advantage?

thanks,
Mike

stoney · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2003, 12:57:31 PM »

I've always sort of wondered that myself. The Series basses can be played in Stereo (or mono) when the power supply is used but only in stereo through the 1/4 inch jack (I know the 1/4 inch jacks were stereo on the 81's Series basses. Don't know if they still are) Anyway, I always wondered why they wouldn't make the 1/4 in. jack mono.

Anyway, I recently did a gig using my Brown Bass which has mono and stereo output. I've been having problems with this Euphonic Audio iAmp 800. Seems that it sort of poops out when I run anything less than 8ohms through it (I'm using an ACME 2x10 and a 1x10) It mainly happens when I'm playing really hard or fast or slapping. Sort of like information overload, the amp regroups if I stop playing for a while. So I took my little GK micro amp (the amp part of that old really cool GK 12 box w/amp...they used to sell the amp part seperately.)and ran my bass in stereo. I ran the neck P/U through the 2x10 and iAmp @ 500 watts and the bridge P/U through the 1x10 and GK micro at around 100 watts. It was really pretty efficient and a great sound too. You can EQ each P/U to your liking and the dial the volume in or out.

mica · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2003, 01:10:09 PM »

That's true for the older basses, Stoney. Since about 1988 or so, the 1/4 jack is supplied as a mono output by default on a Series I or II. Of course, you do lose the cool plug-your-headphones-in-the-bass feature when the 1/4 is mono, but you will get both pickups with a regular guitar cord.

When you order a Series I or II, you can specify the 1/4 output to be wired stereo, mono or add a mono/stereo switch at no extra charge.

wayne · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2003, 02:31:14 PM »

AN answer to the question would be to have the ability to literally have two basses in one. I read an article on SC once that said he ran the neck pick-up through a standard bass rig, and the bridge pick-up through all the effects into Marshall stacks for solos.

I personally like to run stereo becaue I feel I can get a better over-all sound when each pick-up has its own preamp. In the case of the 20th Anniversary electronics, the signal seems more robust in stereo mode - even if I just run both signals into the same F1-X (using both inputs at once).

C-Ya...........wayne

palembic · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2003, 03:30:59 PM »

huh-huh
Brother Wayne.

please explain?!?
So you mean that I can go from my DS-5R to my F1-X using the BOTH outs on the DS-5R??? But the F1-X treats them as mono afterwards then??? I mean, I only work in bi-amp.
And the sound gets fuller?? Or what''s happening??

Paul the puzzled one

lembic76450 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2003, 07:32:39 PM »

Paul,
I too run both outs of the DS-5 into each channel of my F-2B, but, I use the mono out of the pre-amp as I only run one side of my power amp. It seems to give a summing effect to the pick-ups. As Wayne says it gives a much fatter sound. I usually run 2 single 12 Bag End cabinets for the stage. It keeps it much simpler for the house guy that way and cheaper for me.

Kenn Reynolds

hifibassman · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:03:30 AM »

The reason the sound is fatter singled out is because when you blend neck and bridge together, some frequencies of one pickup tone naturally cancels out (reduces or adds to) the other. Each pickup is sensing a slightly different vibrating wave of the same string due to it's position that may add or subtract from the sound at certain frequencies. When you blend the pickups, you get slightly different resonances and harmonics than if they were singled out. I believe there is an electronic load that is placed on the output preamp channels inside the bass when both pickup circuits are blended that renders a more softer, buttery, harmonizing trebly sound (based on the natural interaction of both pickup coils electronically blended). If running single, then you would get more of a balsy or bassy sound presence. Alembic SC-1's (series pickups) are the state of the art, absolute magnetic pickup perfection. I think all of us will agree that Alembic's wonderful series preamp circuit brings out the maximum possible potential of both pickups singular or in combo mixture. My major in college was in electronics, and i have built (as a hobby) many complex sallen key based filters such as Alembic, just to let you know i'm not just making all this up.

(Message edited by hifibassman on November 18, 2003)

palembic · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2003, 06:18:54 AM »

So let me put this again.
You guys are giving me the following concept:
- multicable from Bonnie to DS5-R
- Put DS-5R switch to Stereo
- link the two outputs front of the DS-5R to the two inputs of the F1-X -where they are threated as mono through the SF-2 in my case and splitted by the frequency crossover in low and high, going to the poweramp?
Correct?

For the moment I run the DS-5R in mono-switch and than with 1 cable out to 1 input on the F1-X.

And there would be a sound difference???

***sigh*** the more I read about the lesser I understand from electronics.
But ...I'll try this tomorrow evening on my Drive rehearsal.
I'm really curious!!!

Paul the VERY puzzled one (and ...ok ...I admit ...a little -tiny bit- sceptical)

wayne · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2003, 07:30:10 AM »

Paul-

Yes. I believe you will hear a difference. In theory, there's not, but my ears tell me there is.

One of the cool features of the F1-X circuit is that input 2 has a 6dB pad on it if used by itself. When you use both inputs at the same time, ... mixing resistors combine the signals and give isolation to the two input sources. In layman's terms: the 6db pad goes away.

Using only one preamp, you won't be able to EQ the pickups separately, but I think you will notice a difference in tone and better noise rejection.

Give it try!

C-Ya.............wayne

David Houck · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2003, 08:21:15 AM »

Wayne; although I tend to defer to your greater expertise, could the difference in tone be merely perceived due to an actual difference in volume? I'm talking about the situation as described by Paul where in the first case the DS-5 is set to mono and one cable is run to the F1-X and in the second case the DS-5 is set to stereo and two cables are run to the F1-X. I'm just thinking out loud as I don't have a series bass or, obviously, a DS-5.
Paul; I look forward to your post-rehearsal report.

palembic · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:33:33 AM »

Oh You bet I'll report. I'll report like I've never report in my entire live.

mikedm · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2003, 10:51:45 AM »

Taking all into account, does the pickup selector on the series basses behave differently than the usual blend control? In other words, setting a series bass pu selector to both affect the signal regarding cancelling the way the variable blend control works? In that case I guess there is no blending?

Wayne - How would i get a stereo signal from the 20th Anniv electronincs into an F1-X or is that even possible?

hifibassman · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2003, 11:38:03 AM »

If the output of the DS-5 is in stereo mode, with two cables going into the F1-X in stereo mode (if there is a such a thing), and if the output from the F1-X is going into two heads and two separate cabs- the perceived tone or sound will be different than blending it at the input source or setting to mono.

But, if the signal is in stereo mode and blended at the F1-X, then the tone should be very close to the mono setting (may not be exactly the same because it may be a different type of mixing circuit- not the same as the DS-5). All of this is assuming we are talking about the series bass as the originating platform. The series bass has an isolated circuit for each pickup, and the two pickups can be mixed together in an additive way on the bass itself to the output cable before the signal enters the F1-X.

Or am i on the wrong page in this discussion here?

wayne · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2003, 12:51:19 PM »

Dave - The tone really is pretty much the same (unless you have two preamps) from mono mode to stereo mode. That's even accounting for volume. Stereo mode does *seem* to give a hotter signal with the Series bass, and it *seems* to have better hum rejection. I believe that the offcial word from Ron W. would be that I'm dreaming.

Michael - With a selector switch, you get one pickup or the other or both. No in-betweens. The way I adjust the blend of the pickups is with the individual volume controls (not just the trim pots inside the bass). For the 20th Anniversary electronics, you just need a Y instrument cable: stereo 1/4 inch on one end, 2 mono 1/4 inch on the other. Marcus usually has some in stock @ Larry Morgan. You will definitely notice an increase in signal strength running the 20th Anniversary in stereo mode.

Randell - Your second paragraph is on target. I typically run a stereo signal that is blended at the F1-X inputs. I take the mono signal out of the F1-X into a QSC PLX that's set in parallel mode, thereby giving me a master volume for each of two speaker cabinets.

I first experimented with the stereo signal into one F1-X due to only getting one channel on the FOH board. Once I realized that the F1-X would do it, and that my 20th Anniversary had a stronger signal in stereo mode, there was no looking back for me.

We're definitely talking about perceptions here. As I said, technically, there's probably no difference and I'm just hearing things.....but isn't that what it's all about?

C-Ya...........wayne

hifibassman · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:11:12 PM »

Quote from Wayne: Dave - The tone really is pretty much the same (unless you have two preamps) from mono mode to stereo mode.

My first paragraph is agreeing with you on this except for my assumption of the F1-X having a stereo mode- in full stereo mode if you have two preamps going into two separate heads and cabs, the sound will be different.