Author Topic: Humidity and Alembics (Read 689 times)

jagerphan84 · « **on:** November 10, 2003, 05:12:58 PM »

Now I know that humidity has an effect on wood, but I dont know details...Just wondering if anyone knows any specifics about the effects or dangers of extremely high or low humidity on Alembics? Any suggestions on good equipment to monitor and control the humidity in my apartment?

bigredbass · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2003, 10:09:48 PM »

j84:

I'm hoping my compatriots will clue us both in on this, but I'll take a swing at this one.

With the success of TAYLOR acoustics, this humidity subject has really grown since they push it so hard. I can agree that it's a good idea to watch this on acoustic instruments, as soundboards on box guitars, etc. run a fine structural line between
a) being thick enough to stand up to the string pull from the bridge , and
b) being thin enough to project a full bodied tone.

Of course, bracing, wood type, thickness, solid/plywood top, and any number of factors go into this choice. With high humidity, a top can swell, low hunidity, it shrinks. Acoustics are just way more delicate than solid bodies.

ALEMBIC, at their price point, specs AGED woods.
Aged here means the wood sat after it became lumber and before it became an instrument. LOTS of cheaper guitars can't afford this aging. Wood dries as it ages: It's a lot more stable before it becomes an instrument. I can't overstate how important this can be in an instrument that's meant to last a lifetime, as ALEMBICs are.

By design, ALEMBIC limits 'humidity creep' by using laminations. My bass contains mahogany, quilt maple, eastern maple, purpleheart, and ebony. Guess what? These different woods respond to humidity at different rates, so some 'reign in' the others. So you RARELY see any appreciable creep in ALEMBICs.

I've played solid bodies for 25 years, from cheap to my present ALEMBIC, I've always followed the rule to never leave an instrument where I would be uncomfortable: No hot car trunks, no cold backseats overnight in winter, etc. While a new guitar may take a little time to settle in if it was shipped form a different clime across the country, once I kept it at home with me, I can't really see a 'weather effect', even when I road gigged from Canada to Florida. Solid bodies are just much easier to live with.

Now the disclaimer: Anyone who works with wood will tell you that it is vexingly inconsistent: there's always gonna be that 2% that just will NEVER behave! As Mica says, . . . eventually the wood will know it's no longer a tree.

J o e y

jazzyvee · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2003, 11:54:56 AM »

I remember when I first had the alembic last summer and was waiting all day to do my set with the band. the bass was in the case in the back seat of the car with me, windows open and case closed. when I got it out to play hours later the body of the bass it was covered in condensation...... I've no idea how so much condensation got in there as the silica gel bag was still in the case... fortunately no damage done. but I was scared it was gonna ruin her. Now I carry it with me rather than sit in the car with it.

bracheen · « **Reply #3 on:** November 11, 2003, 12:37:33 PM »

I've heard several times about Alembics being sensitive to humiditiy changes and needing neck adjustments fairly often. Any opinions on this? I've only had mine for a couple of weeks and it hasn't left the house so the setup is still fine.

Sam

palembic · « **Reply #4 on:** November 11, 2003, 12:51:30 PM »

As Brother Joey said (and Mica) ...in sonme cases it takes some time when the tree accepts he's a bass now!
Bonnie was made out of such a tree!
She's was ALIVE for most of the time.
However.
The swinging (of th eneck, noting else) occurs by changing season (fall to winter, spring to summer). I guess that in the beginning (back in 1996 there was no Alembic Club) I threated her too rough by making the neck-corrections. I over-turned the thing.
Thnaks to Brother Joey and his routine I understand the fine tuning better and I started working in the less-is-more-philosophy. I have to admit that Bonnie is more in rest now. Wait-wait ...she's a hell-off-a-bass and good companion but ...well ...she is kinda tamed ;-)

Paul the bad one

mica · « **Reply #5 on:** November 11, 2003, 01:14:39 PM »

It's humidity changes that affect the necks. The neck is a long beam just dying to react to these changes. Especially the first few seasons the bass goes through, it will require adjusting.

Not that Alembics require more adjusting than other brands. All wood shares this reaction to humidity changes.

Most Alembic players like to have the action very low. When you have such little clearance, even very small changes in bow will show up. You're dricing a racecar, not a stationwagon, it's going to need fine tuning more frequently.

After a few seasons, the instruments will generally settle down and have less reaction to the changes.

Of course there are exceptions: I'm reminded about my parents 107 year old house. It's made from solid redwood with all original sashes and still we can't open the windows in winter for the swelling of the wood. Some wood never learns.

jake · « **Reply #6 on:** November 11, 2003, 02:27:04 PM »

wow a solid redwood house...it would be hard to pull that these days!

captain_jan · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:33:18 AM »

I've read your conversation regarding humidity and basses and I thought I could give some experienses I've had with my instruments. Since I live in Finland which is a cold country (even colder during the winter!) I can say the changing temperature and humidity of the different seasons do have an effect on wood and basses. In my younger years I played cello which being an acoustic instrument was vunerable to the cold. During the winter the instrument had to be kept warm by having a cloth inside the hardcase to prevent the thin wood to crack. This I still do with my basses if I have to take them outside room temperature to a wintery dry air climate. Even if a bass is laminated, as mentioned before different wood materials will react in a diferent way. I have noticed that during a cold winter (even in home temperatures) the frets on my -75 Series I tend to pop out at the both ends of the fretboard. This would mean that the actual fretboard shrinks somehow. Also the neck laminates react, lighter wood shrinks more than darker wood with a higher density. On my -87 Series II the changes are not so drastic but the neck itself moves a bit lowering the action thus not so much that I'd have to raise the strings. Of my other basses only the Jaydee moves its neck so much it's not possible to even play it at winter even if I try to adjust the neck! I also travel a lot in high humidity climates such as Asia but so far I have not wanted to take Alembics there. My travel bass is an all graphite-body Status which doesn't get affected of any humidity changes. However some time ago I remember reading a discussion in the Bass Player regarding graphite necks that they also could be vunerable to exreme humidity. The only disadvantage here would be that if a graphite neck would get affected, how would it be corrected? Generally I'd say to have a humidity of around 50 to 60% inside your home, less than that one can expect things happening in the wood. And for us living in the cold: keep your basses warm. After all, we have to take good care of our babies!

David Houck · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2003, 06:16:19 AM »

Thanks Jan, and welcome. By the way, nice boat!

Does everyone agree with Jan's recommendation of keeping indoor humidity between 50 and 60%? (And I'm assuming we are talking relative humidity.) I have an office in my home, and 60% is a bit high for copy paper, copiers and other office type things; so I've been avoiding the high side. Recently the humidity here outside has been quite low, and indoors my humidity readings have been in the 40's. What does anyone else think the low end of reasonable indoor relative humidity for our basses should be?

yggdrasil · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2003, 06:53:07 AM »

On the warranty card for my Turner Model 1, it says:

We build our instruments at a humidity level of 44% to 47%, typical for US guitar factories.WE highly recommend that you keep your instruments within plus or minus 10% of this humidity range...

I take that to mean 40% - 51%.

Frank.

David Houck · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:08:44 AM »

Thanks Frank. That makes me feel better about the situation.

palembic · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:16:11 AM »

Hi Brother Jan,

beautiful ship indeed.
What can I say?
About EBS, I tried one but they were over my budget. Ingmar Putz, a club member and owner of the absolute georguous Coco-bolo Series II dragonslayer (See showcase) in Paris is an EBS addict.
About TURKU (you live in TURKU???)
I LOVE TURKU!!!! Really ...I was there at the moment of the TALL SHIP RACE last summer!!!!
Actually I'm coming to TurKu for Christmas: from 19 12 until 28 12!!!!
Why??? My daughter is at Turku University for 6 months as a last year law student!
You'll find her at Y? Kyl? 3C19 in Turku. Just as a surprise you could give her a visit and do the compliments of her father Paul as a colleague member of the Alembic club.
If you find this convenient we could meet in Turku than, it seems you have a hell-of a nice collection of basses! All on board of that boat?? That boat must really rock!!! LOL
Please send me an E-mail at paul.lindemans@skynet.be

O-o ..and BTW ...there are gonna be some hard yelling Pauls coming over wanting to see some pictures of your alembics so ...I''m sorry ...that boat thing will not be convenient than ..so hop into your camera and provide us some nice pictures in the appropriate department!!

Hope to see you soon!!!

Paul the bad one

palembic · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2003, 07:25:24 AM »

I have this BRILLANT idea! (Again ....I HEARD THAT ...Val and MIca!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I don't like the model of the Alembic cabinet we saw in another department but ...we can start from there to make a guitar ....humidoir!!!
Voil? ...brillant ...I found the crosslink between bass guitars and good cigars.
(Bass guitars and good cigars seems the title for a funny song ...ha!)
Now let me see ...how can I find a cross-link between bass guitars and excellent single malt scotch whisky???
Brothers Paul TGO, TFO, TBO and TJO are living cross-links between Alembic and good beer.
Let's be creative!

(Message edited by palembic on November 15, 2003)

captain_jan · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:49:30 PM »

Hello again and thanks for the warm welcome. It surely is a small world! Yes, I live in Turku onboard my cargo ship together with my basses although parts of the ships interior is under renovation. Since I have an all automatic climate control and good heating boiler onboard humidity is no problem. Only the limited space for all the 6 basses is...
Regarding good cigars, single malt scotch whisky or good beer as well as Alembics we all seem to have things in common! For any bass pics you all have to wait until January since I'm now in Singapore driving a passenger cruise ship.
All the bass
Jan

ps. Paul TBO I'll be in touch!

s_wood · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2003, 03:56:32 PM »

Cool thread...

I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the USA (near Philadelphia) where the humidity ranges between 20% (usually in the winter) and 80-90% (in the summer).

In my experience, Alembic necks do move more somewhat more than those of other high-end basses, but Mica is right: Alembics are capable of VERY low action, and if you set up with low action almost any change in the neck will lead to buzzing.

But, so what? Adjusting your neck with the truss rod is only slightly harder than adjusting the length of your strings with the tuning keys. It's very easy to do, and once you learn how your bass will always play like butter. Lots of mid-70's Series basses have no truss rod cover, and I always liked the philosophy underlying that design: adjusting the truss rod ought to be like tuning your bass, and it shouldn't be mysterious.

Here's an excellent on-line primer that will explain how to adjust your truss rod.
http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html

A couple of caveats:
1. Alembic truss rods require a wrench for adjustment, and not an Allen wrench.

2. I use a capo to hold down the strings at the first fret, and use my finger to hold down the strings at the 24th fret.

3. With the strings held down as above, you should barely be able to fit a Fender medium pick between the bottom of the string and the top of the 9th fret. If there's more space than that, you have to tighten the truss rods. If there's less than that (which means your strings probably are buzzing on the frets) you have to loosen the truss rods.

Really, it's easy!

(Message edited by s_wood on November 17, 2003)

(Message edited by s_wood on November 17, 2003)