Rogue vs. Europa

[DanFrank]

Hello all!


Having no experience with a Europa or Rogue, I'm interested in a 5-string (or 6-string if not too heavy), I'm hoping some of you can give me opinions about their differences.  In looking at the specifications, it seems that the only real difference is the body design.  If that is the case, please leave your experience opinions.  Also, what would you consider a reasonable price range for used models of each in very good condition?  Thanks![size=78%] [/size]

[FC Bass]

There are more differences, iirc:

No oval inlays and Purpleheart neck laminates on the Rogue and the rogue comes standard with the bar tailpiece (Bird for Europa, though most 6 string Europa's I've seen also had the Bar tailpiece)

[edwardofhuncote]

Dan, it does mostly comes down to the body shape, as so many things are common options between them. Rogue is often reputed to be a better balance, but I can't report firsthand. Club Member Darrell (dtothec) has quite the array.

As you'd expect, used Rogues and Europas usually price out about the same with similarly adorned models. Indeed, looking at the product pages, they are very close.

http://alembic.com/prod/europa.html

http://alembic.com/prod/rogue.html

I'd hate to pick between them!   

[DanFrank]

Thanks FC and Greg!


I've been in conversation with this seller in the Netherlands https://reverb.com/item/6805440-alembic-roque-5


This one must have the purple heart as an upgrade.  I'm just wondering if that horn and form factor of the Rogue will be too much mass.  The seller told me it's 10.5 lb.  I've read the Rogue is very well balanced and there should be zero neck dive.


I think the seller is still overpriced, but I haven't found many sold Europa or Rogue's in the last year, so I'm trying to figure it out.  He claims it's $150 shipping charge and about 2-days if it's not over the weekend.....that sounded to cheap and quick to be true but I never had one shipped to me from the EU.

[FC Bass]

Yeah, that one has some upgrades :-)
I forgot one important detail: Default for Rogue is/was extra long scale (35 Inch)

Edwin (owner of Bass Connection) is a great guy, he used to be an official Alembic dealer and has lots of experience selling them all over the world.

[Alembic_geek]

I just picked up a Rogue 5 on a trade for a Ken Smith BSR5GN. The best trade ever, for me at least. It's the 4th Alembic I have had with the previous being an Essence three times and Orion. The bridge string spacing is wider than the Smith which is 18mm. I think the Rogue is 19mm. The only difference I have notice between the Rogue and Europa is that the Europa has a narrower bridge spacing at 17 mm ? I maybe wrong.

[FC Bass]

Here you can see the standard Neck Widths: http://www.alembic.com/support/reference.html
The Rogue and Europa have the comfort taper, so the string spacing would normally be the same.

....But as Custom as Alembic is, these parameters can be adjusted to the customer preferences so the only way to be sure is by: Measuring yourself or check the build sheet.

[keith_h]

Flip caught what I was going to say and that was the standard Rogue is a 35" neck. My understanding is the balance is pretty good. I've not played a 5-string Europa but the 4-strings I have played balanced nicely. As far as prices go generally European prices will be higher than those in the USA. Add in shipping and insurance and it could end up being a lot more than if you waited for something domestic to show up.

[DanFrank]

Thanks so much.  Great to hear Edwin is trustworthy.  He told me it's a 34-inch scale.  I couldn't tell if the string spacing was wider than 18 mm but I would prefer less than 18 because I play with a pick a lot.  My current 5-string '86 Spoiler is 16/17 mm spacing, so it's fast with a pick.  That makes me think Europa is a better choice for me to play with fingers or pick.


Funny, I have a Ken Smith BSR5MW that I would trade for the right 5/6-string Europa/Rogue/Essence (preferred in that order).  That was a great trade although I didn't notice the string spacing on that photo and thought it was too wide for my playing.


Thanks for the feedback!!

[edwardofhuncote]

You still got that Spoiler 5-string, yes? IIRC, that was your 'pick' bass. 

*nevermind - I see it there now... I was afraid that one had slipped away.

[Alembic_geek]

I was wondering what was the comfort taper bridge spacing was; it's cool with 19mm but 18mm is also good. Hopefully I can also snag a 6 string Rogue or Europa with a trade with my MTD; Looks like a lot of players nowadays are holding on their Alembics.

Flip caught what I was going to say and that was the standard Rogue is a 35" neck. My understanding is the balance is pretty good. I've not played a 5-string Europa but the 4-strings I have played balanced nicely. As far as prices go generally European prices will be higher than those in the USA. Add in shipping and insurance and it could end up being a lot more than if you waited for something domestic to show up.

[adriaan]

I was wondering what was the comfort taper bridge spacing was; it's cool with 19mm but 18mm is also good. Hopefully I can also snag a 6 string Rogue or Europa with a trade with my MTD; Looks like a lot of players nowadays are holding on their Alembics.

The spacing at the bridge on nearly all Alembic basses is different from most other makers. The fixed distance is not from the center of each string to the next one, but from the edge of one string to the edge of the next. It's ever so subtly different, and yet it would be bordering on unplayable if it was 18 or 19 mm. On my 6 string, the edge-to-edge distance is 15 mm. Mica did the maths for me, and the center-to-center distance goes from just under 16 mm between C and G to just under 18 mm between E and B.

[Alembic_geek]

Cool insight. Most definitely, it is a bit wider than the Smith and very comfortable, hence the comfort taper.

[DanFrank]

You still got that Spoiler 5-string, yes? IIRC, that was your 'pick' bass. 

*nevermind - I see it there now... I was afraid that one had slipped away.

Yes Greg! I still have the Spoiler and love it.  The only reason I'm considering another purchase is because the position of the upper horn relative to the frets and how that affects the reach to the lower frets.  The 32-inch scale, 5-string Spoiler has a short upper horn (15/16th fret) and I need to pull the bass to my right side to be reach the lower frets with ease.  My Smith bass is a 34-inch scale but the upper horn is around the 12/13th fret and I can reach the lower frets very comfortably.  Moreover, I would prefer an Alembic because I prefer the Alembic tone, etc., so I would be willing to trade my Smith bass if someone were interested.....(long shot).

[5a quilt top]

I own both - a 5-string Europa with comfort taper neck profile and a 4-string Rogue with custom neck profile (like a Stanley Clarke SD).


Both have the standard electronics package and each has a Fatboy in the bridge position.



Both balance extremely well, no neck dive whatsoever. Obviously the Europa weighs more, but both are comfortable to play standing for long periods of time.


Tonally, they are different because the neck sizes and woods are different. The Europa has the standard maple/purplehart neck construction with a maple fingerboard and the Rogue has a custom neck construction of maple/purpleheart with a center ebony lam and the standard ebony fingerboard.


The Europa has, as you would expect, a big, bold, bright, ringing tone that's perfect for cutting through a dense mix in a rock / funk project. I can use the tone controls to dial that back as required for country or R&B, so she's my "go to" bass when versatility is required.


The Rogue, even with the smaller neck, sounds almost as big as the Europa due to the ebony lam, but the overall tone is darker and more focused.


I'd use the Rogue more but she's a 4-string and the smaller neck profile can be difficult for me to play for extended periods of time.


If both models had the same neck profile and were made using the same woods and had the same electronics, they would be very similar tonally, so it comes down to aesthetics as to which one you'd prefer.


Re: price - I'd say you could get something extremely nice (pre-owned) for $4,000 - $5,000 USD.