"Odd" preamp question

[Eric1616]

Ok, so I've always been very unsophisticated in terms of amps, effects, etc.  I've always just plugged a guitar or bass into an amp and played.  Sure, sometimes I've played around with a pedal or two, but that's about it. 

I would like to add a preamp to my guitar and bass rig ("rig" is the wrong term -- amp and pedals is more like it).  This may be a silly question, but if I buy a F2-B, can I run the guitar through one channel, into my guitar amp, and run my bass into the other channel, into my bass amp?

Thanks.

[dela217]

Yes.

[StephenR]

If either of your amps has an effects loop you should be able to run the F2-B into the return, bypassing the preamp in your amp and only using the power section and speakers. That way you can, plug into, and use the F2-B as a preamp without getting a separate power amp and speakers.

Why do you want to add a preamp to the front end of your rig? Are you looking to overload the input and dirty up the sound? I am assuming that when you say guitar and bass amp that means you have a combo amp.

[Eric1616]

No, I have 2 separate amps -- a small Fender tube amp for the guitar (Blues Jr.) and a Fender Rumble for the bass.  Not high end stuff, I know, but I bought the bass amp before I "went Alembic."

Can a preamp go directly into a speaker cabinet?

[StephenR]

No, I have 2 separate amps -- a small Fender tube amp for the guitar (Blues Jr.) and a Fender Rumble for the bass.  Not high end stuff, I know, but I bought the bass amp before I "went Alembic."

Can a preamp go directly into a speaker cabinet?

Sorry my earlier reply wasn't clear. I could tell you had separate bass and guitar amps but was asking if they were combo amps, meaning a bass or guitar amp (like your Blues Jr. and Rumble) that is self-contained i.e. the preamp/power amp and speakers are all in one cabinet. I was curious about why you wanted to add a second preamp.

Without a power amp a preamp can't drive a speaker cabinet.

[Eric1616]

Thanks.  I am not happy with the sounds I am getting playing my Darling through my Blues Jr.  Thought perhaps a preamp would let me get a sounds more to my liking.

[lbpesq]

Hi, Eric.  I concur with brother Stephen.  The problem with using a preamp, like the F-2B, in front of a combo like your Fenders, is that the signal from the preamp will be much too hot for the Fender to handle.  You use a preamp paired to a power amp connected to speaker(s).  Or you put them all in one box and you have a "combo" amp, like your Fenders.

I'm a guitar player.  My main rig is an F-2B into a Carvin DCM300L (4 lb. class D stereo power amp - 100w/ channel into 8 ohms - one rack unit), into a pair of 1x12 cabs with JBL K120, one with a hemp cone.  I plug my guitar into into input "1" on The "A" channel of the F-2B.  Then I "jumper" a cable from "A's" input "2" the channel "B's" input "1".  I then mix one channel to accentuate the highs and the other, with the darker sounding hemp cone, to accentuate the bass.  I love the F-2B as I'm a Fender guy and the F-2B is based on the old Fender Dual Showman.

What are you trying to achieve?  If it's to quickly and efficiently change from guitar to bass, and vice versa, there are foot switchers that will allow you to easily switch between guitar and bass, including between your guitar and bass amps.

Bill, the guitar one

[lbpesq]

Eric, I was composing my previous post when you posted the above.  If this is your first Alembic, I'm not surprised you haven't yet found your sound.  In my experience Alembics really get along nicely with Fender amps.  But Alembics are a whole 'nother animal than most other guitars.  Many of us stumbled a little in the beginning.  What kind of music do you play?   What kind of tone are you looking for?  I think you're on the right track in looking for something to put between your guitar and the Blues, Jr., but a rack preamp isn't the answer.  I've messed around with running Alembic electronics through lots of different pedals over the years, as have several other guitarists who hang out on the site.  So feel free to pick our brains.  I bet we'll come up with something to make that Darling sing!

Bill, tgo

[Eric1616]

I'm looking for that clean, sweet Garcia-like sound.  I play at home at a relatively low volume, and the tube amp doesn't really seem to  "open up" at a low volume.  Suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[elwoodblue]

I do use a preamp for middle of the night Garcia cleans,
specifically a GT Trio.  The output goes to a little mixer(with a reverb loop) then to the stereo. That way the power side has a lot of overhead (and the stereo is already there...even headphones at that point are great).
 
 A nice cable can open up the top end. My Zaolla cable really sounds clearer than all the others. They ain't cheap, but it does make a notable difference.

[elwoodblue]

My amp tech was just working with a client to get a better clean with his blues jr.
 Maybe the mods that are common for those and adjusting the bias might
be worthwhile.
 (just brainstorming)

[adriaan]

Didn't they take a post-pre signal out of a Twin Reverb into some Macintosh tube power amps, to have loud & clean? And is that not how the F2-B came about?

[rv_bass]

I use my Series I guitar with a F-2B and the same amp Bill uses into a Tone Tubby 112 Cube with red alnico hemp cone speaker (although I think their Purple Haze speaker is supposed to be more like the K120), along with Mr. Springgy reverb and Golden Path Madman overdrive pedals, sounds nice and I can get a pretty clean sound out of it.   

[keith_h]

The Fender tube preamp section in the Blues Junior and Twin Reverb should be very similar to the F-2B as that is what the tone stack was based on. Neither amp has a line level input that you could use to insert the F-2B between the internal preamp stage and the amplifier stage.

I think part of your problem is the niche the Blues Junior is intended to fill. That means it is designed to have a bit of grit. You might be better off with something like Bassman or Super Reverb if you want a cleaner sound. An F-2B with a solid state power amp should also be able to get a pretty clean sound but you won't be able to get that over-driven power tube sound. 

[5a quilt top]

You need clean (but warm) headroom for the Garcia tone.


A Blues Jr. has a 15 watt power amp and uses El-84 tubes. As such it is designed to go into natural overdrive very quickly. That coupled with it's small cabinet and slightly fuzzy sounding 12" speaker = a pretty gritty tone, especially when combined with somewhat powerful Alembic electronics.



IMO, you need a tube pre-amp - the Alembic products are obvious good choices for this - and a fairly powerful tube power amp - many flavors available here, but I've been told that the Peavy 50/50 power amp is a good choice and I'm sure that others on the Forum will have advice / opinions.


If you want a wallet (and back) breaker - you could go for the Holy Grail, a Macintosh like "the man" used - yikes!