What amplification system are you using with your Alembic?

[thebass]

Just to complete the list: My signal chain is a 94 MK Std --> F1-X --> TC Triple C Compressor (Mono) --> QSC RMX2450 (parallel mono) --> SWR 8*10 Megoliath (each chamber driven by one PA channel). I use the balanced signal (post EQ) from the F1-X to drive the house mix. Since I play my MK STD I mostly switch off the compressor. At next occasion I want to replace it by a SF-2.

[lbanks]

I'm running my Orion thru TE-AH300, Basson B15b 15 cab, Hartke 4.5XL, Behringer Bass V-amp Pro /w Sunn Coliseum 300 for backup. The Sunn sounds smoother and sweeter than the Trace-Elliot, but power do win out.

[u14steelgtr]

I am using a bone stock Peavey Session 500 with the original 15 Black Widow speaker.  On stage I typically run the XLR on the back of this amp directly to the sound board for the sound person to mix. And I use the session 500 more like a monitor. I set the amps speaker volume with the master-volume which on this amp is really a gain control for the power amp stage of the amp.
 
It works very well for what I run through it: 4 string bass, U14 Pedal Steel (B6/E9), D-10 Pedal Steel, various guitars (including my Alembic), and most recently a Korg Z3 Guitar-Synth.
 
I have a reworked Hafler 500 that I plan to use for the 6-string bass I am working up the nerve to order. I think that the Session 500 would be unsatisfactory for the 6 string bass. It may well be OK for the low-B string however the low-F# string (which I anticipate tuning to F, F#, or G at various times) will surely run it out of headroom.  
 
I have no idea what cabinets the 6 string Bass will demand.

[tylere]

Right now, a Crate BFX-115. Playing my Alembic through that is...unkind. Something like drinking Dom Perginone out of a paper cup...
 
However, a reliable source has informed me I'll have a nice shiny (almost) new SWR Bass 350 under the tree in a week or two I've already planned to pair it up with an Avatar 4x10. That should finally let me here what this thing should sound like

[musikill]

I am new to this group but thought I would weigh in with my boat anchor setup:
Peterson digital strobe tuner
ART tube preamp
BBE Max Bass preamp (this unit recently replaced my 20 yr old Ashley preamp and Ashley Lim/comp)
3 - old Crown DC300a's (one of which I am the original owner)
2 - 1x15 Trace Elliot bass bins w/EV speakers
1 - 4x12 custom built folded horn (sounds great with my fretless)
I just bought a SC Deluxe and expect that it will sound fine through this system.  This is a rediculous system for me now since I no longer have time to gig - but I just can't part with it. I'm looking to buy something more reasonable.  Something in the 60 - 100w range, probably a combo of some sort.  Not sure what to get.

[David Houck]

He Greg; welcome to the group and congrats on your purchase of a very nice bass.  If you get a chance you may want to post pictures of your bass in the Showcase section as for some reason many of the members of this group enjoy looking at Alembic basses .  
 
I don't know how you plan to use the combo, but in my personal opinion a 60 to 100 watt range is very limiting.  (But then I'm always thinking I need more power .)  But more important than the output, the combo must sound good with your Alembic.  For instance there was a recent discussion here concerning an SWR Workingmans Combo in which most posters who had owned or played through the Workingmans found that it did not allow the full tone of their Alembics to come through.  On the other hand, there may be others who own Workingmans combos and are happy with them.  And I suppose not all Workingmans are alike.  So what do you plan to use your combo for, just practicing by yourself, jamming with a band, playing gigs?
 
(Message edited by davehouck on December 19, 2003)

[bracheen]

Dave, I'm glad you brought up the watts range.  
What is a good range for medium sized clubs?  I realize that any answers will be opinion.  I'm doing some research into buying something maybe next year and haven't much experience with it.  In addition to watts is there pros and cons on 4ohm vs 8ohm?  Any insight would be appreciated, not just from Dave.
 
Sam

[David Houck]

There are a number of people in this group that know a lot more about this stuff than I do; plus I tend to research issues and then forget what I've learned over time .
 
I switched to 4 ohm cabs after I acquired an Eden WT-800.  The Eden is designed to handle 4 ohms per channel (400 watts each) in two channel mode or 8 ohms bridged single channel.  I have no idea why it's designed that way; but it is, so that's why I decided to switch to 4 ohm cabs.  (There may have been other reasons and I remember researching the issue for a while, but I no longer remember what the other reasons were .)I added two 4 ohm Eden 210 XLT's; they matched the head in watts (350 each) and ohms.
 
I'm not sure what a medium size club is; but I thought that rig put out a lot of good quality sound.  Later, I wanted to improve my low end sound so I substituted an Acme B210 for one of the Edens and then picked up a QSC PLX 2402 to power it.  As we've discussed here before the Acme is very inefficient and requires a lot of power; the 2402 puts out 700 on a side into 4 ohms and while I don't turn it up all the way I've been running it pretty close while leaving the output on the channel with the Eden around it's 400 watt level.  Then I added the F1-X and took the WT-800 out of the rig.
 
To my way of thinking, the power you need is in large part determined by your sound.  I tend to think that the sound I'm after is clean with a big warm low end and enough high mid to cut through the guitar.  I use an SF-2 to warm the low end over a specific frequency range and also to give me a wide and even range for the mid high part of the tone.  The lower the frequency, the greater the power requirement.  Thus to get a big warm low end I want a lot of power.  Plus to get the volume I want to push a clean tone to where it can compete with the guitar also requires a lot of power.  If your not after a big, warm, clean low end and if you don't need to cut through the guitars, then you don't need nowhere near the power that I think I need.  If your sound features a compressed over-driven mid to low mid tone, then again you will not need as much power.
 
The good thing about 8 ohm cabs is that you can run two of them in parallel and give the amp a 4 ohm load.  If you run two 4 ohm cabs parallel then you get a 2 ohm load, and a lot of amps don't like that.
 
To be honest, with the tone I'm trying to get and when playing with two guitars and a drummer in a rock band, the two Eden 210 XLT's are not enough to fill a medium size club without also running through the house system.  (But it sounds great on stage!)  But lots of players play with less power than the WT-800 and are happy with their sound.
 
When you read back through the posts in this thread, there are players running 300 watts and there are players running 800 watts.  To me, it has a lot to do with your tone, the type band your playing in, and whether you're running a direct out to the PA.

[musikill]

Hi Dave, and thanks for the welcome.  
My system provides me 1200w on the conservative side - More than I will ever need again I am sure.  There was a time when I needed that much horse power.  Fortunately the guitar player had top of the line gear (in stereo) so we had a clean but loud sound.  I am looking for something more reasonable for practicing and maybe an occasional jam here and there.  I can't even move my current system.  I drive a 3 series BMW now instead of a panel van so I have space considerations in my transportation.  My Crown power amps are very efficient and of course very clean.  I am waiting for the Alembic to be delivered on Monday - bought it used for $1,775.00 - a SC Deluxe I think it's a pretty good deal.  So, I'm looking for a small but very good sounding amp and for practicing 60 - 100w is fine.  I used to have a B-60 flip top and later had a B-30 Flip top both sounded great.  The B-30 was only $350 new.  Now you can't touch one of those for under $600 very used.  Oh well.  Any amp ideas would be appreciated. - thanks

[David Houck]

Greg; I don't own a combo but the first things I think of are the Eden Metro and SWR Redhead.  But those are bit pricy if all you need is something for practicing.  Here's an article from Bassplayer that reviews several combo amps.  Ironically given what's been discussed here before, the Workingmans amps score well.
http://archive.bassplayer.com/z1999/9907/combo1.shtml

[adriaan]

Greg,
 
I think people are not liking the Workingman 15 model, which has the 15 speaker + tweeter, and a semi-parametric mid. I haven't actually played one, but generally speaking it doesn't surprise me that a 15 speaker sounds a little honky.
 
Then again the SWR tone controls let you do a lot of adjusting, and you can soon adjust your way out of a decent tone - add to that what you can adjust on your Alembic, and you can be lost in space. The big problem with SWR amps is that people often think that the Aural Enhancer is a boost/cut control, while it's a boost-only control, and it can really mess up your tone.
 
By the way, I've heard horrible sounds coming out of Eden rigs ... It's not what the amp can do for you, it's what you can do with the amp.
 
I love the Workingman 12 model. If you're looking for a pleasant tone, start with all the controls in neutral, and the Aural Enhancer turned down completely, and work from there. This combo will fill small-sized jazz clubs nicely, provided that other amplified sounds are not very loud.
 
I also played the Baby Baby Blue in a shop - a 160W 10 + tweeter pro-level amp, with a multi-band parametric eq. Even with an active Fender Jazz, and the controls in neutral, it gave out a very sweet tone with plenty of highs (tube pre-amp). But I got the feeling that it didn't push a lot of air, even with the master volume at 5. Perhaps an extension cabinet would help there. It's about 10 pounds lighter than the Workingman 12, but unfortunately also more expensive.
 
Not sure what will happen to SWR now that they've been bought by Fender ... Check out old stock in shops.

[dnburgess]

Greg
My recommendation for a versatile small rig would be an Acme Low B2 plus an Acoustic Image Clarus amplifier.
 
The B2 only weighs about 50 lbs - but is a very serious loudspeaker 40Hz - 22kHz +/- 3dB and -6dB at low B. Max continuous power 375W. The flat, wide frequency response is ideal for Alembic basses.
 
The Clarus virtually disappears, weighing only 7lbs - you can carry it over your shoulder in the supplied bag while you're carrying the B2. 200W into 4 ohms. Plenty of tone shaping controls. Also very hi-fi.
 
This rig was a surprise hit at the Aussie Alembic launch where it sounded great with an Excel doing jazz/funk in a 100 seat venue. (Although, to be honest, you wouldn't want to go much bigger / louder than that.)
 
The B2 can be partnered with bigger amplifiers for larger gigs - but doesn't need to be driven hard to sound good.

[musikill]

Thanks to all for the advice.  I will look into each suggestion and let you know what I decide.  I've been out of the loop for about 8 years so some of this stuff I have not heard of.  Is the B2/Clarus brands available in the US?  I'm in So. California.  Thanks again to all and have a great holiday.

[dnburgess]

Acme is based just outside Denver, CO - they use a Dell style factory to customer business model: www.acmebass.com
 
Acoustic Image is based in Raleigh, NC. They tend to sell through boutique style dealers: www.acousticimg.com

[musikill]

Thanks David,
I'll check them out - Is this the correct forum for requesting historical info on a bass?
thanks
greg