Tail piece and tone?

[rv_bass]

Does the tail piece affect the tone at all or is its effect confined to sustain?  Would a newer tail piece affect the tone differently than an older tail piece?

I ask because my 76 Series I bass has an older tail piece and the bass has a very open bright sound, even with flats on it.  It's distinct and I like having a bass with this quality, I'm just curious if the type of tail piece contributes to this sound.  Otherwise I guess it's due to the wood types: maple top, back, and neck with mahagony body.  Thanks.

[adriaan]

Some variations do exist, apart from shape and finish -
There's Monty with the iceberg variation ...



And on the Brown Bass and Retro models there's the half-wood, half-brass variation as seen on Grandmaster ...

[adriaan]

Soundwise, I wouldn't know. The sustain block under the bridge certainly makes a noticeable difference, but that's at a contact point where the string actually vibrates. Hard to tell, and so many variables ...

[pauldo]

I really like the look of the GrandMaster tail piece. 

[edwardofhuncote]

Curious to see what comes of this discussion. I'm going to guess that a solid brass bird would absorb less of the string vibration than the bird-on-wood tailpiece does, thereby speeding up the transfer of the vibrations back to the neck-thru-body.   

(apples to tennis balls..) I'm absolutely certain tailpiece mass has a profound effect on an upright bass, but in that application, the tailpiece becomes part of a resonant mechanism, an extension of the vibrating length of the string, rather that simply an anchor point for the strings. There's actually a formula for calculating how to adjust the tailpiece hanger for maximum resonance. (it's 1/6 of the scale length if you're curious)

*In the case of Rob's '76, I think maybe it just has an extra helping of awesome!

[keith_h]

I don't think the tailpiece would have a direct effect like the bridge would. I think the biggest effect the tailpiece would have on the tone is how well it anchors the strings. To this end a larger mass and more/deeper screws should minimize its movement allowing for more stability in the string and thereby better intonation.

[adriaan]

The same number of screws to the tailpiece for the 4s and the 6 in my custody ...

[dtothec]

My question would be, how much of the vibration of the string extends past the bridge?

[gtrguy]

Time to mention here that replacing old bridge brass screws with new stainless steel screws is a good idea.

[edwardofhuncote]

I'll throw another variable out there... my '89 Persuader has the bridge screwed directly to the wood, but my slightly older '81 Distillate is mounted to threaded inserts. Kinda' surprised me, first time I saw it.

[pauldo]

<snip>. There's actually a formula for calculating how to adjust the tailpiece hanger for maximum resonance. (it's 1/6 of the scale length if you're curious)

I need more detailed info (or better yet a group of 8 x 10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back . . . ).
Let's say my upright has a 42" scale length (nut to bridge); 1/6 of that is 7". The tail piece hanger (?) should be 7"? Is that saying from where the tail piece attaches to the bottom of the bass up to where it connects on the bottom of the tail piece?

[gtrguy]

Oops, I meant replace old tailpiece screws with new SS ones!

[edwardofhuncote]

Sorry pauldo, my cell phone pictures are bad enough! 

The string "after-length", or the length of string from the top of the bridge to the point where it is fastened to the tailpiece should be approx. 1/6 of total scale length. So yes, about 7 inches for a 42" scale bass. Some of the 'real' setup guys will take it a step further, and actually tune that length to an octave and a fifth above the open string pitch, or other pitches for a desired effect. If I ever did that, I swear it was a total accident!

Seriously, it does make a noticeable difference, especially if you have a bass with some honks or wolfs to deal with. (one of my basses has both)

[pauldo]

Gregory, Roger that, thanks for the explanation.
I will have to check and see where mine is.

[hieronymous]

Here are the birds of prey on the doubleneck:



It's a 1975 - I still want to change the strings on the 6-string to Bass VI tuning - maybe soon!


I can't really contribute to the discussion about how the tailpiece affects the sound - with so many variables, I personally wouldn't think they would have too much effect as opposed to the neck woods, electronics, strings, etc.