Stereo Output question(s)

[edwardofhuncote]

Got a question for you guys about stereo output... bourne out of blissful ignorance and pure inexperience.

So I recently discovered my 'rainy-day' bass, an early Tobias Growler, is one of a small experimental batch made with a push/pull volume pot that switches the output to stereo. Growlers came with a single Bartolini quad-coil pickup but with separate preamps, so it functions like two separate pickups... each half independent of the other, with separate volume, stacked tone controls, and midrange contour switches. According to what I've read, volume pot 1 which corresponds with the coils closest to the bridge, when pulled up, supposedly switches the output to stereo mode.

So, (with a gleam in my eye) I bought a stereo instrument cable (RTS) to try it out... plugged directly into my F-1X/power-amp rig. Frankly, I don't see/hear what's 'stereo' about it... I can only use half of the pickup when in stereo mode.


Now on to the dumb questions...

Is it because the input jack of the F-1X is mono? (I don't know if it is or not)

Is it time to start shopping for an F-2B?

Any other way I can get the benefit from the stereo output? Some kind of Y adapter or splitter box?

Most detrimental - is this going to make me call Mica and inquire about upgrading my (currently under construction) bass to have switchable stereo output capability?  (please say no, as it may be too late anyway)

As always, I appreciate any advice given here. You guys are the best. 

[lbpesq]

The F-1X is a mono preamp.  The F-2B is stereo.  If you want to run a stereo rig, you need two preamp channels.  You can either get an F-2B, or another F-1X, using one F-1X for each channel.

As for your cable, it sould be 1/4" trs (stereo) plug on the bass side, split into two 1/4" ts (mono) plugs on the amp side - each getting plugged into a separate amp or preamp.

Bill, tgo

[keith_h]

Bill stated the rig requirements pretty well.

I don't recall what you had decided on for electronics but to go stereo would require a version that has two preamps. The only non-Series version that comes standard with stereo is the Anniversary set. I don't know if the other dual preamp versions can readily be modified for stereo or not. You would have to ask Mica. I have only run stereo with a volume/volume setup so I don't know if a pan control would be as versatile but should still be more open than mono mode. 

[edwardofhuncote]

Thanks Bill & Keith... that's kinda' what I was thinking. 

Nah... my Custom Fretless bass is to be equipped with East-Meets-West electronics, (thanks in-part to your Custom Orion Nebula, Keith) so my Alembic stereo experience will wait until I find an old Series I... one day... one day. 

In the meantime, I'm quite tickled that my Growler 5-string turned out to be something of a unicorn. I bought it pretty reasonable last year from another member on TalkBass, and had given thought to selling it. Playing my Alembics has spoiled me to the point I'd rather not have to play a backup. That said, it's a fantastic instrument too.

Who knows, maybe a nice used F-2B will come along, giving me a reason to keep it? 

[lbpesq]

I'm running all of my mono guitars "sort of stereo".  I plug into channel A of my F-2B preamp.  Then I insert a jumper from the second channel A input to the channel B input.  Each preamp channel then goes to either side of a Carvin DCM200L power amp.   Each channel of the Carvin then goes to a separate 1x12 cab.  I set one channel of the F-2B to accentuate highs, and the other half to accentuate lows.  I've been experimenting with stacking the two cabs vs. setting them up side by side a couple of feet apart.  The jury is still out on that one, though I'm leaning towards side by side.

Bill, tgo

[edwin]

Bill stated the rig requirements pretty well.

I don't recall what you had decided on for electronics but to go stereo would require a version that has two preamps. The only non-Series version that comes standard with stereo is the Anniversary set. I don't know if the other dual preamp versions can readily be modified for stereo or not. You would have to ask Mica. I have only run stereo with a volume/volume setup so I don't know if a pan control would be as versatile but should still be more open than mono mode. 

My SI shortie had a pan pot and it was great. I loved it. Hopefully Pierre-Yves loves it too.


If I had my way, all my instruments would have pan pots over a vol/vol arrangement, but for some, it's just not practical.

[David Houck]

When I was running stereo out of my bass, I ran each pickup into its own channel of the F-2B; this allowed me to use the controls of the F-2B to further EQ each pickup.  From there, I went mono out to my effects.  I never switched to just the neck pickup or just the bridge pickup; I was just looking for a good overall blended tone to send to my effects.  Once there, the stereo effects were then sent to separate channels of the power amp, and then into separate matching speakers.

However, switching to just the neck pickup or just the bridge pickup can give you two distinct voices; and keeping these separate all the way through the chain, you can tailor them even further.  Different speaker cabs can give each pickup an even more distinctive tone.  Further, you may, for instance, want to add effects to the bridge pickup, while keeping the neck pickup clean; this way you can back the filter off on the neck pickup to give clean unaffected low end, while the signal from the neck pickup has a little delay and reverb added.

So running stereo out can give you a lot of possibilities.

As for the single pickup Tobias, there probably isn't much distinction between the neck side and the bridge side; but you could still give the two signals distinctive voices further down the chain.

[edwardofhuncote]

I 'preciate the insight fellas... knew I could count on this group. 

Just to clarify - the Growler does have a single pickup, but each half of it is designed to work independent of the other. If I had to compare it to anything Alembic-like, it's works a little like Anniversary electronics do. Each half of the quad-coil has it's own Volume, Bass and Treble boost and cut, and a 3-position switch that is usually described as a midrange contour. It kinda' feels like attenuating the Q-switch on our Alembics, except it's not boosting a Q setting per se.

So you can in fact make each half of the pickup sound radically different. I tend to leave the treble flat and boost the bass on the neck-ward side, and boost the treble while leaving the bass flat on the bridge-ward half. Getting brightness or deepness quickly is done by flicking the switches either direction.

So I'm still not really clear on how much awesomeness there is to be had with a stereo output until I have a chance to hear it through a stereo rig. I wonder if the old Acoustic Image Clarus 2 I use for upright gigs has a stereo input? I'll have to go look... something tells me it does, but I've never used it.

Here's a quick-n-dirty picture of the Growler V controls if it helps visualize...

Thanks Again guys!

[edwardofhuncote]

Just as an aside, the guy who developed the Growler bass for Gibson (bought out Mike Tobias in 1992) claims it was designed with Michael Anthony of Van Halen in mind. It never panned out though... the stereo output idea was quickly scrapped, with perhaps only a handful produced, and eventually later models lost the midrange contour switches.

These things aren't much to get excited about aesthetically, but it's a very lightweight comfortable bass to play with a lot of tonal possibilities. (apparently, even a few sounds I haven't heard yet)

[bigredbass]

The original stereo Series/f2b pairing (I really think using the word 'stereo' is misleading, suggesting some sort of special spatial sound; as a pun, I often think they should call it 'Wick-O-Sound' !) was both pickups went down the 5-pin cable, and broke out of the DS separately if desired.  Each then went to each side of an f2b, then each to each side of a power amp and on to your speakers.  The idea was you could amplify and tone-control each pickup on its' own.  Alembics use the old school layout of the neck pickup right near the end of the fingerboard (very rich harmonically) and the bridge pickup right at the bridge (think Telecaster twang), and running each separately gave an infinite number of tones when the two were summed together, solo'd, or any combination between the two.  In this (dry) configuration, it's a different breed of 'stereo' as opposed to a more usual rig with a guitar feeding a 1 in/2 out delay or chorus to two amps, though you could certainly insert 2 in/2 out effects between the f2b and power amp.

Why a picture of this setup is not included in the website is a mystery to me.  This is an essential yet way overlooked capability of Series axes that' often overlooked. Especially as these days with Class D amps and Neodymium cabinets this is not the Allied Van Lines proposition it was back in the days of big Hard Truckers cabs and McIntosh amps, way easier and cheaper to do nowadays. 

I can't see much sonic difference in one side and the other between coils inside one pickup, but since you're a Y-cable away from trying it, why not?

Yep, call it Wick-O-Sound . . . . . .

Joey

[lbpesq]

"Wick-O-Sound"!  I love it, Joey!

Bill, tgo (who actually owns a Rick-O-Sound)

[edwardofhuncote]

By the way Joey, this is that bass I was telling you about... 

In case anyone is interested, here's a link to the TalkBass thread about the story of the Tobias Growler basses: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/official-tobias-growler-club.805279/page-10

[bigredbass]

Interesting  article from Burke about his work on the Growler, ending with the obvious takeaway:  NEVER work at Gibson.  Nice axe, but I'm on to something else, and I appreciate you lots, Greg.

Joey

[edwin]

I ran my Starfire in stereo last Friday night. The engineer, who I work with regularly, was skeptical at first (he usually takes a DI line and mics the cabinet) but at the end of the night said he loved it, once he figured out what it was all about.

Onstage, I had each pickup go through an F2B channel and then to its own amp channel and speaker (Bag End IIs, a 15 and a 12, both with K series JBLs.)

My only complaint while playing was that it was perhaps too clean.