Estimated Prophet bassline...

[glocke]

I've been playing this for years and think yesterday I realized I've been playing the verses wrong (well, probably playing  a lot of that tune "wrong" in all honestly.


I always thought that Phil was resolving to the F# during the verses...meaning that for the "don't worry about me no" part he was landing on the low F#, but yesterday I think I realized he's actually resolving that bass line to A.


Anyone else here play that song that can verify that?


(also hope all that makes sense)

[cozmik_cowboy]

Probably depends on the night; from a TV interview I saw ~1980:
Weir: We never play a song the same way twice.
Kreutzmann: Hell, we barely it the same way once!


Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

I'm relatively new to trying to pin down Phil's lines on any given tune. Lately the guys I'm gigging with are covering more Dead tunes, so I've been making extra effort to import a few textures from him. Yeah, what Coz said... almost never the same, even within the same jam.

[glocke]

Probably depends on the night; from a TV interview I saw ~1980:
Weir: We never play a song the same way twice.
Kreutzmann: Hell, we barely it the same way once!


Peter

thats a good point...maybe i just never paid attention to that one particular show....i'll have to go back and listen to the studio version.

In any case, just tried it that way at a rehearsal..it works, and sounds good.

[edwin]

He resolves on the A. The other tricky part is the rhythm of the verse, where he kind of plays it straight against the swing of the other parts, so he has to do a bit of a hop at the end of the phrase to catch up.

It took me a long time to get that part.

Great song!

[cozmik_cowboy]

OK, listen to Edwin on this; he's a great bassist & I'm a crappy guitarist.....

Peter

[811952]

Wow. I'd never heard that song before. That's just a lot of really nice groove going on, and probably an absolute mess to replicate without knowing it inside and out in your sleep. I'm not very much into the GD genre (more of a prog guy), but man, they did do some very nice stuff.

John

[rv_bass]

Love that tune (and miss those 70s Capitol Theater shows).

[hieronymous]

Wow. I'd never heard that song before. That's just a lot of really nice groove going on, and probably an absolute mess to replicate without knowing it inside and out in your sleep. I'm not very much into the GD genre (more of a prog guy), but man, they did do some very nice stuff.

John

If you like progressive rock, then albums like Terrapin Station (where the studio version of Estimated Prophet is found), Mars Hotel & Blues for Allah are great places to start! Very strong prog elements on a lot of the songs - odd meters, complex instrumental passages. Estimated is ostensibly in 7/4, but I hear it more as 8/8 + 6/8 in the verse & 6/8 + 8/8 in the chorus. The song Terrapin Station is 16 minutes long, with orchestra and choir - what could be more prog?

Improvisation isn't always an element of prog (think Yes, Rush), but it was a defining element of King Crimson. Improv is definitely one of the key elements of the Dead that I love - once you get a taste you're hooked for life! Though it should be pointed out, one of the things that makes it difficult to get into the Dead (besides the fact that Jerry Garcia is no longer with us) is that the studio versions are often/usually not the best representation of the band - fortunately there are oodles of concert recordings but that can be difficult to wade through. This is one of the recordings that I first fell in love with, they play the entire Blues for Allah album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsY57U474H4

[811952]

I love me some Crimson.


I grew up with Wake Of The Flood, and really like that album. I'll have to give them a better listen. The big thing that I struggle with, in terms of enjoying GD, is that they're so loose. I know, it works and is its own kind of tight, but it's still something that doesn't really speak to me, if you get what I'm saying. I really like structure in my music, for reasons I don't understand, particularly since I really enjoy improvising when it's me playing.


John

[lbpesq]

To me, the Dead employ a Dixieland Jazz approach, using rock 'n roll tools.

Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

Or, as Mickey Hart put it, a rock'n'roll lexicon with a jazz syntax.



[size=78%]Peter[/size]