Author Topic: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)  (Read 2442 times)

edwardofhuncote

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Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« on: June 22, 2016, 08:05:09 AM »
 It’s been a while since I did a shop thread… really, I haven’t spent much time up there in the busy Spring gig season, but stuff has a way of piling up if allowed to.

The Project: 1946 American Standard ¾-size bass, with a catastrophically failed neck joint.

This particular project has turned out to be a much bigger job than I initially thought it would be, and honestly if it belonged to anyone other than my (late) best buddy’s daughter, I’d have declined altogether. At first look, I just thought the neck joint was loose and only needed a quick re-glue and overnight clamp, but upon further examination, the entire neck block still partially fastened to the neck was moving freely inside the body. That’s BAD, very bad. No other choice but to remove the top and disassemble from inside. So like it or not, we got ourselves a challenge.

Thank goodness this bass hadn’t been apart many times before, so the plywood wasn’t all chewed up… it was a relatively easy removal, coming off nice and clean, a good first step. <sigh of relief> (American Standard basses, like their Kay cousins, are laminated construction) The other good news, the neck and it’s dovetail are intact, with only a minor breakout to repair and some old glue to clean up. That’ll be a piece of cake…

Then I saw the neck block. Ewww. Make that a double ewww.  Mysterious globs of orange glue drizzled everywhere. (not even sure it’s glue… maybe some kind of adhesive caulk?) The block itself apparently had been shattered into three main pieces, and several smaller shards. One corner, probably from the original event, had even been nailed back together once. Spent the next hour and a half painstakingly removing what was left of it with a heat lamp and chisels. Here’s what’s left of the old neck block… no fixing that – we’ll have to make a new one, from scratch. One other thing - the mysterious orange goo it turns out is combustible, or at least supports combustion. And smells like ping-pong balls when smoldering.

Yeah, lots more later... enjoy the carnage pics. ;)
 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:07:01 AM by edwardofhuncote »

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 08:24:43 AM »
Oh, what the heck... here's a preview of the next short installment:

As you can see after the old neck block is removed, there are no parallel surfaces or really even any truly flat surfaces to work with... we will be 100% wingin' it getting a square block of wood of either mahogany or spanish cedar to fit in this pocket. The glueing surfaces between the top and back with the new neck block are two different obtuse angles, plus -and this is the really tough one- the two mirrored curved surfaces where the block is glued to the ribs (sides).

Then after all that, we have to cut a mortise to fit the existing necks' dovetail. I'll need to enlist some help with that part, so you folks will get to meet another very good friend of mine, world class luthier Ward Elliott - an Alembican at heart really, who builds and repairs everything from violins to countertops. It'll be a while before we get there.


growlypants

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 10:30:27 AM »
Hey, PIECE-OF-CAKE!!  (Uh...NOT!!)  Good luck, and looking forward to another unbelievable series of pics and solutions.
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

rnolan

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 04:22:08 AM »
Hey Ed of H, that does look tricky, I'm sure you'll get it sorted though  ;)

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2016, 06:03:04 AM »
Nothing too exciting here, but an item that’ll be important later.

The plywood ribs had slightly de-laminated between the heat lamp and prying off the remnants of the old neck block. We need that to be as solid and flush as possible before glueing the new neck block to it. This was a pretty simple sloppy fix – just work some good ol’ Titebond wood glue between the layers and clamp. I love these little clothespin clamps… especially the miniature ones, but I have a whole box full of them in different sizes sashed under the workbench. The wooden cam clamps you see in the other picture are clamping the rib to the back of the body where about 4” of it had sprung loose either from the same impact that did the block in, or while I was disassembling it. I have a bunch of these clamps too, in a variety of sizes – you’ll see more of them as we progress. Cam clamps are great for applying positive pressure, plus with padded cork jaws they’re perfect for musical instrument repair. (won’t dent wood or mar finish) Again, just using Titebond glue here… I’m not even being careful about it, as this all gets cleaned up later. Main thing is, this area has to be as rigid as possible - can’t be trying to hit a moving target when we start cutting these curved faces. 
 
Since after that step I was literally just watching glue dry, I took the first steps at shaping the new neck block to the body, beginning with the fit of the block to the back. It’s a weird steep angle, and also a slightly convex surface. Note the dangle-angle tool in the picture… using the old neck block as a template, I set it to that angle, then transferred it onto the new block with the red Sharpie pen. One pass through the bandsaw, then using a large (6 x 48) belt sander to shape the bottom of the block, and it now stands almost completely vertical inside the bass. There will be more final fitting as the sides are cut and it slides upward towards it’s final position. I’ve also cut the overall width down to 4-7/8” so that it almost fits between the kerfing, leaving a little bit to shave off later for an exact fit. This is a case of measure once VERY carefully, then cut several times. Again, not very exciting yet.
 
The block by-the-way, is mahogany, with a traditional Spanish cedar cap on the inside. Will explain more about that later, but the important thing here is the direction of the grain. 
 

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2016, 06:07:12 AM »
Adding one more picture of the old label, and a link to the H.N. White Company who built this bass and many more like it.

http://www.hnwhite.com/string%20page.htm

rnolan

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 06:16:24 AM »
I like those little clamps, very handy. Your winging it seems to be going well so far  ::) . So IIRC you can work tightbond in an hour ?? full strength 24 hours or so ?? (it's been a while)

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2016, 06:40:36 AM »
Titebond gets tacky in 5 minutes, and will set in about 30 minutes, and yes, I have always waited a full day before un-clamping. Will be using some hot hide glue and possibly some marine epoxy later. Stay tuned. ;)

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 09:27:05 AM »
Nailed together??? I thought everyone knew you use drywall screws for that........

Peter (who will be watching with baited breath - that's what happens when you eat worms)
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wayne

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 08:44:53 PM »
This is WAY COOL.  Thanks for posting.  Love to see this instrument brought back to life. 

I am lucky enough to have a Cleveland.  If memory serves, it's number 121.  It will be the last bass to leave my possession.  Even the Alembics would go before the Big Boy.  It's been with me for almost 40 years.

C-Ya.....wayne
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peoplechipper

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 10:12:59 PM »
I love these threads of yours; I do guitar repairs sometimes but not to this level; I'm a goldsmith and former bicycle mechanic/designer so I'm more METAL than wood, heheh...Tony.

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 11:15:14 AM »
 During the intermission on this bass project, thought I'd share this one around with you guys... a tale of two banjos.


Lately there's been a handful of very early Alembics to pop up here on the forum, and a couple more of what Mica sometimes calls escapees... I guess a few guitars that were clearly built there but on the down-low. I love to see the old ones still getting played out… maybe that's what made me think of it.


Anyway, just by sheer coincidence two of our older banjos, both #91-16 and #91-17 recently showed up back in the shop for minor work and setup... Dad and I built these two practically side-by-side back in 1991, and as far as we know, they've been separate since. Back then we were working out of a little 8' x 12' metal garden shed in my parents backyard. It was an oven in summer and an icebox in winter. We tried an air conditioner once, but between the dust and the pitiful 15 amp circuit the whole shop was on, you could either be reasonably cool, or do work involving power tools, but not both. When there was snow on the roof, once you got some heat going in there, water would condense and rain down on you. Ahh, the good old days.
 
So way back then, this guy comes over to the shop for Dad to do some setup work on a 1970's GoldStar banjo, a Japanese copy of a Gibson RB-75. At the time it was a considerably better instrument than the genuine article. While there, he saw what would become #91-16 as a work-in-progress and commissioned a new build on the spot. They were finished just a couple weeks apart, literally using the same bottles of stain for the sunburst. I remember this was when I figured out we could build two or three banjos in about the same amount of time, something we have done a few times since.
 
#91-16 was a "Sweet Sixteen" birthday present for a girl who was a gifted player, but had a bad back injury and needed a lighter-weight instrument. It was pretty fancy too, all the wood was very high grade curly maple, all hardware was gold-plated, and the hand-cut pearl inlays were just something I dreamed up. To cut down on weight, Dad re-designed the shell (drum-like part) for a simple ¼” brass hoop instead of a heavy bell-bronze cast tone ring. 
 
#91-17 was also to be all curly maple, but by contrast outfitted with nickel-plated hardware. The inlay design was by a local artist Esther Davis. She sketched out this wild looking vine inlay that sorta' grew both directions up and down the fingerboard and headstock. It was an absolute nightmare to execute, but somehow we did it. I remember us taking turns cutting all these individual pieces of pearl... it took a couple weeks or something, and inlaying it wasn't much easier. Looking back though, I’m glad we took the challenge. Sometimes you need to test your limits. Something I had totally forgotten about - the resonator on 17 is inlaid with a rosewood Dogwood blossom and our trademark Honeybee. It was the first time I'd ever tried that.
 
Another little factoid - these were the first two of our banjos to have the new original headstock. (although old #13 eventually was retrofit with one after being unfortunately decapitated) Up until that point, we had simply used modified patterns from other builders, but Dad had doodled this cool asymmetrical shape that reminded him of the early minstrel style banjos. I polished it up with some French curves, and the resulting template is still hanging over my workbench today.
 
Enjoy the pictures, and stay tuned when we resume our regularly scheduled program...
 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:46:23 AM by edwardofhuncote »

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 11:48:32 AM »
And here's a couple pictures of the neck from slightly older sister #91-16. (Dad is working on the pot assembly while I'm doing some fretwork and touch-up on the finish)

Last of all, here's the new/old template, in it's place of honor... ;D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:50:32 AM by edwardofhuncote »

elwoodblue

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 03:43:44 PM »
Dang,
 Cool axes ! (is that appropriate for banjo?)


edwardofhuncote

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Re: Ed of H, and another Bass Repair Odyssey (Shop Thread)
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 07:07:47 PM »
Works for me, child of the 80's that I am, but the younger hip crowd calls it "The Five" anymore. For example, during band intros you would hear- "...and Jethro Ripchord is playin' the five for ya' tonite..."

Like that^.  ;D