Author Topic: Do Alembics scare people? (Read 668 times)

bigredbass · « **Reply #15 on:** September 21, 2005, 06:41:56 PM »

Yes.

J o e y

bracheen · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2005, 07:32:44 PM »

Alan, I love my Epic and can't imagine putting it down, but you hit the nail on the head. There is a local player here named Al Reshard, some of you may have heard of his son Jon. If you haven't, you will. Anyway, my wife and I were listening to him one night playing fretless. He sounded great. I didn't recognize his bass so asked him about it. It was a $300 Samick. The player can definately make the instrument.
Or as Joey put it so concisely, Yes.

Sam

ajdover · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2005, 07:51:54 PM »

Sam,

Look at Jaco. He played a Fender Jazz, and there's thousands upon thousands of them out there, fretted, fretless, active, passive, etc. I've yet to hear someone sound like him. Same goes for Stanley Clarke, or Chris Squire, or Geddy Lee ...

It doesn't have to be expensive to be good in the hands of the right player. A quality bass helps, but it isn't the determinant in the end. Ability, skill, talent, feel, etc. is.

All this being said, I do feel a quality instrument helps one play better simply because they are more adjustable, easier to set up, etc. One can do the same with a less expensive instrument, but it takes more work and patience. I know my Alembics help me play better, as does my Musicman Bongo and Fender Jazz.

Alan

rockbassist · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2005, 08:19:52 PM »

I don't know about about anyone else, but I take exception to John's (jetbass79) assertion that tone comes from the fingertips. I think that saying that has become the cliche of the day. It's like saying the difference between the ride in a Hyundai and a Mercedes is the way you drive. I'm not sure if he was just over simplifying his argument or not. Since he is obviously a very intelligent person (afterall, he he does play Alembic), I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he realizes that tone comes from a combination of things. The type of material that a bass is made from, the way the neck is attached, fretboard material, maintenance, pickups, strings, string height, string gauge, preamps, brand of amplifier, speakers, using a pick versus fingers the way we play the note and of course fingertips all effect tone. Even atmospheric conditions and the type of venue can effect tone. If tone was simply a matter of fingertips then why did all us spend thousands of dollars on Alembics when we could have bought a $150 Rogue from Guitar Center or Musician's Friend. I am proud to be able to pull out my Alembics as well as my 76 Precision. If someone doesn't like them, too bad! They are not the one's playing them. I never judge anyone on their gear. I only hope that they can play and have a professional attitude. Having said all that, I do agree with Alan (ajdover) that a quality instrument can help one play better simply because they are easier to setup and once setup they tend to stay that way.

kungfusheriff · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2005, 08:36:35 PM »

When I was a boy, some guys in my neighborhood tried to gang up and get tough with me because I had a better bike (an orange Schwinn 10-speed I bought at a yard sale) than they did, and tried to get me off of it so they could wreck it.
That attitude, combined with another which says the bass player should play a Fender because those sound like what other players are used to hearing, is probably behind that static, which we should ignore because WE ARE THE BASS PLAYER AND WE KNOW WHAT WORKS FOR US.
FWIW, I rode that ugly Schwinn until metal fatigue snapped off the handlebar.

rockbassist · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2005, 09:12:31 PM »

Was that the infamous Schwinn Orange Peel! I had one too! Eventually, I bought a Schwinn Continental 10 speed. That was the bike back in the day. You do realize that we are showing our age with this discussion!

rockbassist · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2005, 09:13:53 PM »

Or was it called Orange Crate? I'm so old I can't remember!

88persuader · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2005, 09:15:27 PM »

A few added thoughts. I agree and disagree with rockbassist about the fingers and touch getting the sound. It's fairly obvious that an Alembic Stanley Clark short scale going through an ampeg SVT rig (my favorite combo) sounds different than a Fender Squire P bass through a Peavy 50 WT combo with a 12 speaker. However ... if I play the SC through the ampeg and 15 other people play my exact same rig we'll all sound a little different from one another because of our TOUCH, DYNAMICS, (or lack of) and taste. A great player can make bad equipment sound passable but a bad player can also make top equipment sound bad. It's not one or the other (touch VS equipment) that makes a player sound good, it's both, it's everything! Equipment, touch, dynamics, acoustics of the room, the soundman, everything.

One little added thing about people's preception of Alembics. I'm a gigging musician and know LOTS of players. Only one of the more than 30 bass players I know recognized my Alembics, others said what's that? All thought they looked great and one person said (speaking of my SC standard) that's beautiful, must have been expensive. One thing they ALL had in common is when i told them what it retailed for and what I actually spent they gasped and said I was F-in crazy to spend that much! But then again, when ever they come to see me play they all drool at my bass line-up. And believe it not, not only were my Alembics not recognized, neither was my Modulus. I live in southern NH only 45 miles from Boston MA, I would have thought with all the big music schools around the players would be more UP on the higher end gear. But for most players i know ... it's Fender or nothing. To each their own i guess.

811952 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2005, 09:28:32 PM »

I think tone comes from everything, but mostly from the heart via the hands (both of them). Chris Squire, for instance, got an awesome sound out of a Thunderbird (Release, Release and Does It Really Happen) and you can tell after 1 note that it's definitely him. He sounds like himself on a cheap-sh*t Electra MPC bass, for cryin' out loud. And Geddy sounds like Geddy no matter what bass he's playing. I suppose I shouldn't go there, but Sir Paul got a tone out of that POS Hofner that endures (some would argue that it has yet to be matched) today. Having the right instrument helps for all the obvious reasons (obvious to us because we own Alembics), but if you're gonna suck, you're gonna suck no matter what you're holding. To me, and I'm probably in outer space on this, tone is more than timbre and derives from tessitura (did I spell it right?) and what the player does with and within the envelope. I may be a hack, but if you listened to my playing much you'd be able to identify (I didn't say like) my *tone* fairly easily I think, regardless of instrument (except probably for the 12-string, which is a monster unto itself). And of course, we all play the same notes in different places on the neck (high notes on the fat strings vs. low note on the skinny ones), which injects quite a few more cc's of personality. So my vote, if I have to choose, goes with the fingers, fwiw...

And sometimes my Alembic scares ME!!!

John

rockbassist · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2005, 10:43:47 PM »

Hi Raymond (88Persuader) I'm not sure that you understood the meaning of my posting. If you had scrolled up, you have would have seen that I also addressed the issue of accomplished players making lower end gear sound great and average players making great gear sound like crap. By the way, I live 25 miles south of Boston. I agree with you 100% that with all of the so called prestigious schools as well as the bands that came out of Boston that players should not be as ignorant about Boutique basses as they are. I clearly stated in a previous posting that unfortunatley, many people feel that if it's not Fender, Ibanez or Musicman that it must suck. This is due to a lack of product knowledge. This opinion is also based on the fact that they haven't heard of anything other than those names that I mentioned previously, so in their opinion, it can't be good. I addressed the fact that Boutique companies do not advertise and mass merchandisers do not carry them so the average player does not have any information about them. They get bombarded by Fender, Ibanez, Musicman, etc and never get the chance to experience an Alembic, Zon, Pedulla, or Modulus, etc. I have been playing bass for over 30 years, yet I have only seen 3 Alembics in person and I bought 2 of them. Like I said previously, I will never judge a player by what they play. We all have our budgets. I just do not want anyone telling me what I should play. I will play what I want and if someone doesn't like it thay can find someone else. It's obvious that anyone who plays Alembic is an accomplished player. Why should we care what anyone else thinks. Play what you like. I wouldn't tell a guitar player what he should play and I don't expect anyone to tell me what I should. Music is supposed to be fun. Like I said earlier, music is supposed to be about self expression. Isn't teling somebody what we should or should not play going against the very reason why we all started playing in the first place?

88persuader · « **Reply #25 on:** September 21, 2005, 11:46:35 PM »

Well Kevin I do agree with the points you brought out. In New England Daddy's Junky Music and The Guitar Center seem to rule. (At least they do in my neck of the woods) and they carry exactly what you've mentioned for gear. Also personally I know MANY people who not only think an American made Fender is the only bass worth playing but they also think if it's 30 years old and beat to hell it's better than new. I'm not an antique collector, I think a 30 year old Fender is simply an old bass. Have you seen the price of some of these collector's items? Makes a new Alembic seem cheap!

But when Glocke 1st started this interesting thread the question was Do Alembics Scare People. And I guess after reading many of the replys and replying myself I think my opinion to that blunt question is NO. I don't think Alembics scare people because most people don't even know what an Alembic is. I think the only people who are scared of Alembics are the spouses or girlfriend/boyfriends of people who spend small fortunes buying Alembics! :-) I personally had to widdle my collection down to one Alembic (I sold my Epic and Persuader, I'm keeping my SC) because of financial reasons. I couldn't justify owning a $1,500. Epic (used) and a $1,200. Persuader (used) when i played my Stanley Clark 99% of the time. I own a few cheaper basses as back-ups .........

The only person i know personally who's afraid of Alembics is my wife, she's afraid I'll buy another one! ;-) That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :-)

lbpesq · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2005, 07:20:53 AM »

The instrument & rig define the potential tone. The brain, heart, spirit, and fingers determine to what extent that potential is reached. My 2 cents.

Bill, tgo

811952 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2005, 07:41:23 AM »

Bill,

Extremely well put.

John

glocke · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2005, 08:51:11 AM »

wow..I didnt realize I would start such a cascade of responses...Bill sums thigns up nciely in terms of potential...

88persuader has a point on people putting alot of stock into fenders, especially beat up fenders..While I have a couple of vintage fenders, including a 72 that has alot of soul (i.e. its beat up), my Alembic sereis 1 gets the most use, and once I get done purging my house of some excess gear Ive bought over the years will be the only bass I never sell...

As for the thread topic (scary alembcs), alot of good poitns were made, but I think the bottom lin e is that people are afraid of what they cant control, and dont understand...

People dont often see Alembics, so when someone shows up with one they probably dont think will fit in well beacsue everyone else is playing fenders or gibsons....

David Houck · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2005, 04:47:22 PM »

Gregory said people are afraid of what they can't control and don't understand.

An excellent observation, and one that goes a long way in illuminating much of human activity throughout history.