Author Topic: 2x12...any thoughts? (Read 792 times)

pookeymp · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2004, 06:17:16 AM »

Another vote for the Dr. Bass Cabs. Marc's 2x12 has great low-end and plenty of punch, and as Bill stated, you don't lose your bottom away from the cab, they project well. I either use the 2x12 alone or team it up with a Dr. Bass 2x10.

This setup has replaced my Acme, SWR & Eden cabs.

Mikey/

kmh364 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2004, 09:44:51 AM »

To each his own. Everyone has their own preferences and tastes and all are valid. Vive la difference!

I personally use Eden D-210XST's (I have two) driven by an EDEN WT-550 head. The playing situation dictates whether one or two cabs (mono - in parallel) are utilized. I got the 4 Ohm cabs to maximize amplifier power (The WT-550 can drive 2 Ohm loads safely). I bought 'em because they are ultra portable and sound excellent.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

Kevin

(Message edited by kmh364 on December 28, 2004)

bassman10096 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:02:45 AM »

Just a note of correction on Dr. Bass: DB makes two cab lines - one with MDF construction, the other (to which Mikey and I referred in this thread) with birch plywood. I was referring to the birch line when I mentioned weights. Also, all their cabinets are sprayed with a truly indestructible polymer - which I like far better than tolex or carpet.

I spent some time talking to the guy at Ear Candy and was very impressed with what I heard. He seems really committed to what he's doing, knows his stuff and offers a great variety of coverings and grills. When I ordered my 212 from Dr Bass, it was a decision between Dr Bass and Ear Candy. The price was within $30 difference. In the end, history (I had bought successfully from DB before) and the desire to add the midrange and tweeter (which EC does not offer) won out. No knock on Ear Candy. Actually, I wound up with nearly the same configuration of heavy 12's in my Dr Bass cab that EC sells.
Bill

bassman10096 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:22:54 AM »

Just another thought on cab makers, but first - Kevin's right - to each his own.

Both Dr Bass, Ear Candy and a bunch of other small manufacturers are operating on a shoestring, often out of a home shop. My impression is that Acme is more established, but I believe the owner is still the principal cab builder. Personally, I prefer dealing with a smaller shop because they tend to offer: greater personal service and customization, lower cost (due to lower overhead - Hey - it's not easy carrying the cost of being Eden every day!) and (sometimes) a design improvement or two (i.e. Acme's cab designs, Dr Bass's coverings and long experience in box construction, and Ear Candy's devotion to heavy, brick sh*thouse construction, covering choices and joint design).

What you risk in dealing with a small shop can be delays (neither Ear Candy nor Dr Bass carries any inventory - they just build as soon as you pay) and the potential aggravation of dealing with a start-up operation.

Like Kevin said: To each his own.
Bill

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:34:22 AM »

I must have missed the reference to the Birchline series, but here are the specs from drbasscabs.com:
BL 2128/2124 - 60 pounds
BL 2124 (Neo) - 51 pounds

And the MDF version:
Rx 212 - 52 pounds

So they're a little heavier than you mentioned, even with the neodymium magnets. Although one of the Rx cabs loaded with neo speakers could be an impressively lightweight 212.

I'm very curious about the spray coating - it seems like that would be MUCH more durable and easy to clean than most cab coverings. EC offers Naugahyde in just about any color you can imagine, which was a plus for me. I'm sure it's not as durable as the spray coating from DB, though.

I'm intrigued by the 12/6/tweeter cabinet of yours, Bill, and I'm thinking it would make a great standalone for practice or smaller gigs. If my financial resources were a little greener, I'd look into getting a couple DB cabs to do a direct comparison with EC. Maybe if someone from the NY/New England area has DB cabs, we can set up an experimentation session some time.

Another thought on the small shops: Although they may not carry inventory like a major manufacturer, they can sometimes do things to help the buyer that a major manufacturer won't do. When I spec'd my 210 to match my 212, Tim started the construction right away, and a totally customized cab was ready to ship by the time I gathered the money for it. I doubt many major manufacturers would start building something custom without seeing a penny from the buyer first. It goes both ways with the smaller companies.

And certainly, like Kevin and Bill said, to each his own. There are just as many options out there as there are ideas in your head.

poor_nigel · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2004, 12:05:21 PM »

Why do youse guyz keep getting the numbers wrong??? It's 2x21, right? Portability? Sure! Geeze, my magnet structures weigh more than the whole cabs listed above. Muscle relaxers? Yep, I do use them, and casters, and hand trucks, and ramps ... The price I pay for a B string that raises the hairs on the back of my neck - but it is worth it to me. I never have been the brightest bulb in any display, but if you heard my 21's, I know they would bring a smile to your faces. OK, nuff said. Back to 10's and 12's.

bsee · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2004, 12:19:37 PM »

Heck, I am using 8's sometimes. (Baby Blue II with matching extension cabinet)

I'd like to try a Schroeder 1210 or 1212 as an extension to my Super Redhead to create a bit more boom for the louder outdoor gigs. On the other hand, it seems like power and headroom are really the thing and that I should get a 1000+ watt power amp to sit between my F1-X and a decent cab or two. I still want light and portable, though. Maybe I can find a fold-up, helium-filled version of that 2x21 cab?

All I know is that I am really tired of swapping gear. I only want to buy one more rig.

poor_nigel · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2004, 01:02:09 PM »

A Whappo Grande weighs in at a mere 87 pounds. Light for what you get. Uses a Beyma 21L50 - I have seen these go for as low as $999 (Speaker only), each. They are 33 pound speakers (net), so more portable than my 80 pound each 21's (net). I hear Bagend makes an ELF 21 with this same Beyma driver and it is less weight than the Whappo Grande, I believe, and goes below 20Hz.

For Ref: http://club.alembic.com/Images/402/10130.html#POST19385

Sorry, this is getting too far off the battle of the 12's topic. But they are cool stuff . . . This summer I finish off my last rig, ever. Huge, very heavy, and maybe not to pretty. Then I think it is time to off all my vinatge stuff that is collecting dust. Too many amps are just too many hassles any more. So I am with you on that score, Bob. Here is to the last one!

dnburgess · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2004, 01:45:41 PM »

Custom speaker cabinets?

My understanding of speaker cab. design is that the designer typically uses a combination of computer and real world modeling to optimise a design to his/her design objectives. The real world modelling is a laborious process - and would make a properly executed custom design really expensive. The corollory of this is that an affordable custom design is most likely suboptimal.

David B.

poor_nigel · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2004, 02:05:02 PM »

I bought a design program for about $90 that you plug in your freq parameters desired and all the data supplied by the manufacturer of the particular speaker you wish to build an enclosure for. The program processes the dozens of spects and calculates and states the sizes, and ports you can use to attain those freq parameters. Materials are a factor, too, but I am using better than what most do, so no problem.

Now, it is easy to design and build a large speaker box that will pump out the specs you want. It is tough to design the smallest you can get it and still attain those specks. Therefore, I could have saved $90 by not buying the program and built 4'x4'x8' boxes that would have killer specs! However, I am trying to keep the wood bill under $1,000 for four boxes (Hardware not included), and not take up the whole stage, either. Optimal? That is what is being discussed in the upper threads here. I can live with suboptimal miniturization of the cabs, but great tone!

dnburgess · « **Reply #25 on:** December 28, 2004, 02:58:11 PM »

Nigel - I relate to the killer big box. When I was a teenager I built a huge box for a single JBL K120 speaker. That was one of the best guitar speakers I've ever used - but it took two people to move it!

By optimal, I don't necessarily mean flattest or most extended frequency response - although these may be important elements. As you know, speaker design is all about trade offs. For bass speakers size, efficiency and low end extension are key parameters that are traded off against each other.

The optimal design is the one that best satisfies the designer's goals, subject to relevant constraints. E.g. a $99 subwoofer for computer games vs a theatre subwoofer - both may be optimal designs.

Speaker designers will tell you there's still a lot of art as well as science to speaker design. So, in practice, the computer modelling that you refer to is just the first part of the design process. The designer will then build numerous prototype cabinets, tweaking variables - taking both instrument and qualitative (i.e. listening) measurements.

Audio is still about psychoacoustics (i.e. the science can't fully explain the psychological experience) and no manufacturer would put a cab into production without listening to it.

This brings me back to my original observation about custom speaker cab.s. Presumably any manufacturer's standard models represent the best set of trade offs they could achieve - using both computer modelling and physical testing. So an ad hoc variation (as opposed to a fully researched and tested manufacturer's option) would, by definition, be less than the best.

David B.

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 28, 2004, 03:54:23 PM »

Since most of us have greatly different instruments (from the Dark Prince to Beyond Further) and are playing them in profoundly different environments, it would be pretty unlikely for any manufacturer's 'standard' model to be optimal in everyone's situation. If the buyer is fairly knowledgeable about what environments they will play in (i.e. apartment vs. arena) as well as what instruments they will be playing through the cab, it will let them better determine what features to utilize. For example, my 210 is intended as a standalone bass cab which can be paired with another cab for larger venues. My 212 is intended to be a sub to complement the 210, and it was designed with the 5-string bass in mind. The 210 has one port, whereas the 212 has four. The 210's speakers were selected for the broadest frequency response, whereas the 212's speakers are geared entirely toward the low end. I also had the handles positioned in a non-standard location on my 212 to make it easier for me to carry (short body, long arms) and the 210 has a custom wiring configuration. Just some of the reasons I went with custom, but I'm sure different people have different priorities.

Adam

David Houck · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2004, 04:13:28 PM »

Can someone direct me to a picture of the Dr. Bass cab?

dnburgess · « **Reply #28 on:** December 28, 2004, 04:36:34 PM »

Adam, you make a very good case for getting speakers that suit your needs - but that's not necessarily the same as getting a custom speaker.

David B.

hollis · « **Reply #29 on:** December 28, 2004, 05:49:31 PM »

Dave,

http://www.drbasscabs.com/

Unfortunately, it looks like their website's not all the way up to speed for a couple of weeks.