Tinittus

[pace]

I noticed that I had unusually sensitive hearing when I was in my early  teens. After loud concerts my ears would be ringing up to two days later. At the time I was reluctant to wear earplugs when doubling up on vocals.  Again, cymbals were sometimes more than my threshold for pain could handle.  
 
I was lucky to have a mother who worked for a very good ENT whose roster of clients included Roger Daltry. At 14-15 I already had a dip in my upper-mid range. The audiologist cast some molds & made me some Westone plugs with 15db & 25db attenuating cylinders~ excellent investment but Im still uncomfortable singing with them...  
 
As Im approaching 30, I notice my hearing as a whole deteriorating. I operate heavy machinery & scrap metal sometimes at my day job & that has taken it's toll (I'll even have audio hallucinations after an hour or two of hammering). The things that really upset me are being unable to focus on distant sound sources  over moderate background noise (radio, dishwasher, AC, etc etc). The only comfort I find is in surrounding myself with people far worse than me. We sometimes hook up the freq generator at the shop and Im happy to know that I can still hear 17k (my boss cant hear above 13k and he's the main mix engineer!!!!).....  
 
-Mike

[David Houck]

Mike; 15s and 25s are what I have as well.

[andrewknight]

My hearing was fine until I read this thread ;-)
Thanks a lot!
 
just kidding

[adriaan]

No experience out in the field with these myself, but would not an in-ear monitoring system act much like a plug when it comes to loud volume? Provided you keep the volume low on the in-ear monitors, that is ...
 
They may even be helpful if you can't sing with simple plugs, though you will probably hear your own singing better than before (so good luck with that).
 
I think JE once commented how Roger Daltrey and Pete Townsend had their ears cleaned out from time to time, and how they had grown practically deaf - he never had his ears cleaned and his hearing was much better than theirs. Or so he said.
 
Now about the effects of shooting on hearing, I read a book on the history of the Steinway factory. Like most immigrants in the US, the Germans kept up their favourite pastimes: daily visits to the gun club and all-day beer drinking. As a person will notice less pain when intoxicated or drunk, the noise from the shooting would not have bothered them much. Add to that the very noisy steel processing and loud hammering going on at the Steinway factory, and you basically have the reason why the design of the pianos changed over the years to increase the brightness - the designer was compensating for his loss of hearing.

[bsee]

Adriaan-
 
I'm not sure about in-ear monitors.  They may protect on one hand and be dangerous on another.  My mother was a police dispatcher for 20 years and was forced to retire on disability because of hearing loss caused by the headsets she wore to do her job.  I would think that a speaker sealed into your ear would have a great capacity to create sound pressure that couldn't be dissipated before getting to the delicate bits.  
 
Of course, I've never used in-ear monitors, nor I have I seen any studies of how they impact hearing.  I just have this concern based upon my mother's experience.  I don't mean to be alarmist, but it seems something worth checking into.
 
-Bob

[bsee]

Adriaan-
 
I'm not sure about in-ear monitors.  They may protect on one hand and be dangerous on another.  My mother was a police dispatcher for 20 years and was forced to retire on disability because of hearing loss caused by the headsets she wore to do her job.  I would think that a speaker sealed into your ear would have a great capacity to create sound pressure that couldn't be dissipated before getting to the delicate bits.  
 
Of course, I've never used in-ear monitors, nor I have I seen any studies of how they impact hearing.  I just have this concern based upon my mother's experience.  I don't mean to be alarmist, but it seems something worth checking into.
 
-Bob

[adriaan]

Bob -
 
Couldn't agree with you more, like I said: Provided you keep the volume low on the in-ear monitors, that is ...

[pace]

>>>>and you basically have the reason why the design of the pianos changed over the years to increase the brightness - the designer was compensating for his loss of hearing.  
 
I think it's the Basilar Membrane in the human ear which preceeds the Cochlea & acts as a buffer, protecting the inner ear from high SPLs before they are actually perceived.... The only problem is that after you have a few drinks, it's response time is delayed~ thus you do more damage to your hearing when listening to loud music (or firing guns) drunk... go figure!  
 
I have yet to try in-ear monitors, but Ive been warned against them by several people. Ive been told that having a moderate SPL source that close to your ear drum is bad, bad bad. Plus, there is always the possibility of the soundman forgetting that the mix is pre-fader thus sending you a barrage of crackles & pops by mistake.

[wideload]

I finally went to in-ears 6 months ago, and I know I have them alot quieter than the sound in the room. I'm getting used to the clean, pure sound of my Alembic, unmolested by amp and speaker colorations. I do miss my pantlegs flapping, though!
 
Larry

[811952]

In one of the bands I play we're having volume issues.  I have been using two 18 folded horn cabinets with 600 watts apiece and I have trouble hearing the bass over a 50 watt Leslie cabinet on the other side of the stage.  Earplugs so far only make the Leslie seem that much louder.  I don't know what's going on, but something's gotta give while I've still got ears.  BTW, I've recently taken up target shooting with everything from a .22 to an 8mm Mauser to a Colt 1911, and the earplugs I picked up from the tool department of the local farm-supply store (yellow pointy things on a blue adjustable plastic band which sits on the back of my neck) work very, very well, but too well to use for music.
John

[bsee]

John-
 
If you're new to shooting, be aware that most competitive traget shooters wear double ear protection.  In-ear plugs are combined with the big ear-covering insulators for more protection.  Note, also, that the latter are available with electronic cutoff circuits that will allow normal noises through (like conversation) and block harmful ones (like gunshots).  
 
With respect to your sound problem, I'd look to your choice of speakers.  There's been recent talk about Schroeder cabinets and how they improve cut-through of the bass.  Smaller drivers pointed at your head will probably help you hear yourself better.  I believe you have to get a fair bit away from the 18s before the sound comes together.  That kind of tone is a double-edged sword, because you don't hear it well standing close, but it can overwhelm your bandmate across the stage, so he turns his amp up louder.
 
If you just love the way the 18s sound to the audience, then you might want to try adding a small bass monitor system to your package.  Heck, you'r already carrying 2 18s, what's another cabinet?  Something with 10(s) or 12(s) that can point at your head and cut through without having a major affect on what the audience hears.  Otherwise, you might look at replacing one of your 18s with a cabinet based on 10s or 12s.  There's a lot of great stuff out there right now, and a cabinet with smaller drivers stacked on top of the 1x18 should make a difference for you.

[pace]

It might be worth investing in some molded plugs w/ replacable filters, John. While they're not perfect, they definitley provide a more even cut across the spectrum then foam or tissue. Im assuming that the high frequency horns on the Leslie are what's still coming through, while the foam plugs are attenuating more of your lower frequencies than you want?!?!... The only other thing I would double check is the polarity of your cabs compared to the rest of the band.  
 
-Mike

[811952]

Bob,
Good advice, all.  I typically stand 15 feet or so from the 18's, so I should hear them pretty well.  I CAN feel them.  The keyboard player can't hear me on his side of the stage, because the guitar (which I can't even hear from my side) is too loud, or so he says.  I have tried using an Ampeg 410, a front-loaded 18, a 412 and a Peavey 115BW floor monitor up close and pointed at my head with varying degrees of success.  The floor monitor worked best.  I'm not too loud out front (which I find hard to believe, but people I trust tell me it's so), and I know that my rig is in fact making power and moving air.  I think it's an issue of one or two people (out of 5) simply not being comfortable playing at a listenable volume.  They also are the least experienced and weakest musically, which both tend to lead to that sort of thing.  They also don't think our overall stage volume is a problem.  I'm considering running direct-only at our next gig, to give the P.A. owner/operator a vested interest in getting the levels under control.  Good idea?  Bad idea?  
John

[811952]

Mike,
I've got a pair of plugs with the aluminum baffle inserts, but can't keep them in my ears for more that 30 seconds or so.  The foam plugs might be doing what you say, so I'll experiment.  I check the polarity of my cabs against the P.A. at every gig and I have a phase-reverse switch to mitigate the seemingly inevitable dead spot.  My preference is to keep my stage volume low and listen to the bass primarily from the mains, but with this particular group I can't even hear the mains..
John

[hollis]

John,
 
It seems an undeniable given that the weaker they are musically, the louder they play......  I've never been able to figure that one out, but I know for a fact that it was true in my case, and it does seem all too common.  Go figure huh?