Speaking of cables...

[David Burgess (dnburgess)]

Further to Joey's comments about Monster Cable...
 
Hi-Fi buffs will spend hundreds (or thousands!) of dollars on cables, but I haven't read much about instrument cables - which, presumably, should influence the sound even more, being at the beginning of the signal chain.
 
I am interested to find out what cables other Alembicians recommend.
 

[Michael Delacerda (dela217)]

On my series basses I am using a Canare Star Quad cable with Neutric connectors.  I love it.  It is a GREAT cable that the Hi-Fi buffs use.  It is also very cheap to make yourself. You can make one of these great cables for around $20.  Go to www.markertec.com and search for the Canare cable and the Neutric connectors.  They sell the stuff by the foot.  You can get it in the length you want, and the cable comes in all colors.  I am using a green one right now that a friend made for me.  It is easy to spot on stage and sound companies won't make off with it thinking it is one of their mic cables.  You have to be careful when making one of these cables though.  The wires inside the cable are not color coded.  Michael

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

Hi Michael,
 
so you speak about the multi-cable we use on Series basses to go from guitar to DS5-R?
A RED-one.
Sounds cool!
I'll have a look.
Thanks
 
Paul (TBO)

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

dnburgess:
 
Even a brief read through high end mags such as THE ABSOLUTE SOUND (which I highly recommend) will leave your heart pounding at the price and complexity of cable offered for high end audio; I'd guess that this hasn't spread to musical instruments to that degree as generally our gear is much lower fidelity in general.  I guess it's like the old music store joke about a guy insisting on 20-to-20 frequency bandwidth in his sound system, only to sing through $50 microphones. . . .
 
MD is VERY right about the StarQuad cable; I really believe it may be the finest guitar cable available, and MARKERTEK is a GREAT source of value for those who are willing to 'build your own'. Can't go wrong with Neutrik, either.
 
For my ears, the Monster BASS cable just sounds right.  Every time I A-B it against anything else, I always prefer it except for the Monster PERFORMER cable, their ultimate cable which sounds a little better still. And as I said in my other post, their service has made me a lifetime MONSTER customer.
 
Wanna spend high-end bucks for a guitar cable?  Check out www.allessandro.com, who does feature $1K cables.  Ironically they are a big advertiser in VINTAGE GUITAR; I can just see a guy plugging a 50s Esquire into a 50s Bassman and saying,Wow, I HEAR it!. I bet he never heard 60-cycle hum or the nearest AM staion better in his life !
 
Joey

[Bob Novy (bob)]

Okay, Joey, you asked for it:
 
 What other cables have you A-B'ed against the Monsters? Let's name names here.
 
(You kmow I'm into this stuff, and have at least a few issues of Absolute Sound laying around here... though I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to my friends.)

[Wayne McLemore (wayne)]

For me it's Mogami.  I've got everything in my rig swapped over to Mogami except for the 5-pin umbilical cord (back to the birth analogy).
 
I A-B'd against Monster, Horizon, Armoured, and even and old Alembic Belden super-cord.

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

Hey Bob,
Tara Labs!!!!  They are a hi-fi cable company that are now building instrument cables.  Wanna spend $10k on a pair of speaker cables, they make them.  http://www.taralabs.com
They come with a lifetime warranty.  The average 20' cable will cost you about $120.  Their big difference is that they feature a solid rectangular silver core as opposed to a stranded copper core like the Monsters.
One thing about A/Bing high end cables that I noticed is... you don't notice the difference when you go from an average cable to a Tara or any high end cable for that matter, you will notice the difference though when you go back to the average cable.  All of a sudden you notice your low mids becoming squished and your high end being cut.
I have had to send a couple of cables back to them for repair with no questions asked.  I would have resoldered the ends like Rami suggests but they completely enclose the connections in an epoxy. I assume they just cut the connector off and re-solder on a new one.  But at $120 a pop, they can repair it!!
 
Peace - Dino

[Joe Schwartz (the_schwartz)]

The correct URL for Alessandro is http://www.alessandro-products.com/cables-inst.html
 
They have 3 grades of instrument cables, priced at $59.95, $119.95, and $1999.95 for 20'.  The most expensive one uses Audioquest solid silver-core cable.  They don't specify what they use for connectors on it; I think the less expensive ones use Switchcrafts.
 
If I had $2K to spend on better tone, I'd probably put it into an amp (or another Alembic) before I'd spend it on a cable.

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

Bob:
 
Since I tend to 'store-bought' cables, I tried ProCo's BLACKJACK, Whirlwind's LEADER, and D'Addario's PLANET WAVES cables.  
 
The stress relief on all three of these is very good, and quality in all respects was high.  I really liked the look of those massive plugs on the BLACKJACKs.  The MONSTER has NO stress relief to speak of, which bugs me.  However, I've grown a little old to be jumping off the grand piano at the gig, so I can live with it.
 
If I was smarter, I'd follow Dino or Michael's lead and build my own.  Gee, I could have RED cables . . . .
 
Sonically, they were all very good, but as I said, the MONSTER BASS just suited my ears the best.  
 
Michael's recipe from MARKERTEK with the Canare StarQuad (the individual wires are all the SAME color, SIGH!) + Neutriks would be very, very good indeed, and very reasonable from MARKERTEK.  
 
I'm not familiar with Tara Labs, but Dino has been around plenty, so I plan to check them out if he thinks they're that good.
 
Wayne has good advice as well, as MOGAMI is certainly an industry standard. Now Wayne, if you could just find a 'toaster cable' 5-pin replacement for the D5R !
 
Joe, thanks for sending the RIGHT web address for Allessandro; I'm with you:  For $2K, I could have a big Crest or Crown, or an Avalon 737.  
 
Joey

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

Joey,
 
I'm not sure where you can get Tara at this point.  The only place that sold them was the LA Bass Exchange and he's out of business now.  Go to Tara's web site and call them, they could probably refer you to a dealer in your area that can order them.
I'd be willing to send you one to check out seeing there so darn expensive.  This way you can live with it for a couple of days before you plop down 100 bucks.  I'm not a salesman or a paid endorsee for them either, I just think they're one heck of a cable.  Let me know what you want to do.  Email me at dino@monotunesmusic.com if need be.
 
Peace,
Dino

[Joe Schwartz (the_schwartz)]

Has anyone here tried not using cable (i.e. wireless)?  Samson has a new wireless xmitter that fits right in your output jack and is made specifically for bass.  The receiver is a foot pedal with rabbit ears.
 
They list for $350; and show up on Ebay for $250-300.
 
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1600&brandID=1

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

Can I put you brothers in hold for a moment.  
As an authentic Electronic Neanderthaler I'm completely lost in this cable thing.  
In those good old days -when I was not visiting this club LOL- I just went to a music store, asked a cable for my hollowbody jazz-guitar went home, plug in, and (tried to) play ....final.  
So I had this attitude jack on it? will work!  
(Yes I learned the hard way that there are mono and stereo jacks ....augh!!)  
Now I'm becoming aware of this whole cable thing and I'm completely flipped.  
So please can someone anser me in plain english (a electronic-neanderthaler-compattible-version)  
following questions:  
1. Does this cable story involves also the cacle from my SII to the DS5-R?  
2. If yes: what are the precise specs I need to get myself a 10m red cable (cable type, brand name, connectors). I cannot do it myself (I bet I solder my fingers together) but (ahlalala) I have a friend who can.  
3. Do I have to mind In component rigs (f.i. Furman, DS5-R, LEXICON MPX-100, Korg DT1-Pro, F1-X, SF-2, QSC 1602) what cables to use. I mean: are those cable brand names involved in that set-up?  
4. If yes on 3, can I have them also in red? I guess they must be rather short (0.5 m??). To ask for specs would be to much I think. I guess a normal non-electronic-neanderthaler can make it themselves?  
 
Thanks for the info.  
 
Paul (the bad-headache one)
 
PS: after a decent anser I'll put you in play position again  
;-)
 
(Message edited by palembic on April 03, 2003)

[Bob Novy (bob)]

Various brief comments (I should be working right now...)
 
- I happen to have about $5K of wire in my stereo system, which only plays CDs through two speakers (i.e. not a lot of pieces, and minimal lengths). So I do care about this stuff, but like Joey says, before spending $2K on an instrument cable I'd rather buy a Crown or something (okay, since I already have a K1, maybe an ELF unit...).
 
- I'm somewhat familiar with Tara Labs, but don't think I've ever tried any of their products. I'd be willing to bet that $120 would be well spent here. (Maybe I'll take you up on your demo offer sometime, Dino, but comparing cables just isn't that high on my list right now.)
 
- I thought about buying a Monster, partly because you can just walk into a store and pick one up, and because I tend to think of them (in hi-fi terms) as kind of entry level - easy to find, reasonably priced, and way better than not even thinking about it. An easy and obvious choice, and you can always send them to Rami's Repair if the lack of strain relief gets to you...
 
- Ended up buying an MIT Hardwire XL ($85 for 20 ft), and I'm very happy with it. It's much better than the 10 year old SpectraFlex I was using, but I did *not* A/B it to anything else (more below).
 
- Here's a link to a review (probably a bit dated by now) of MIT, Planet Waves, and George'L instrument cables: http://www.mitcables.com/pdf/tonehunter_mit1.pdf
 
- I'm pretty sure there's another archived thread on this subject, for the insanely curious (haven't searched yet myself).
 
- Everything else for me will be Mogami (if I ever get around to picking them up). I didn't make any comparisons here either, mostly just went on word of mouth recommendations. Seems like you really can't go wrong, nor can you do much better at all without spending a great deal more.  
 
 
A few more words on the MIT cable, since no one else has mentioned them here. I considered them because I had used a variety of their stuff in my stereo for several years (although that's all now Cardas Golden Cross). Like I said, I'm quite pleased with the sound; it's very nicely constructed with good plugs and great strain relief. But there are a couple things which might be considered negatives for some:
- It's a larger diameter and stiffer than usual. Not a big deal, but you sort of have to think about untwisting it when you're coiling it  up.
- Right angle plugs are special order only, because they seem to feel they degrade the sound quality (I'm just quoting them).
- It's directional: the ends are labeled Amp and Instrument, because the shield is grounded only at the amp end. Probably a nice touch, but you have to look at it when plugging it in.
- Sorry, Paul, you can't have red: only a silver-gray (which I happen to find tasteful and sort of distinguished looking, but maybe that's just to make me feel better about my beard...).

[Joe Schwartz (the_schwartz)]

A few random thoughts from an audio engineer:
 
- The 3 biggest problems inherent in instrument cables are:
 
 1)Their unbalanced nature makes them susceptible to noise;
 
2) their high impedance makes them susceptible to high frequency loss; and  
 
3) as a cable's length increases, its inherent resistance increases proportionally, dissipating power as heat before your amp get the chance.  At really long lengths (say 100 ft), this can waste a substantial amount of power.
 
Using a short guitar cable to a DI helps with these problems.  The short guitar cable combined with sending a higher level, lower impedance signal from the DI through a balanced XLR cable will be quieter and leave more of your high end intact.
 
If that is not possible, use the shortest length guitar cable that will work in your setup.  Extra length means more noise, less high end, and less power.  The heavier the shielding, the better.  Avoid coiled cables; they can act as inductors, inducing an opposing voltage into the signal and thus reducing your signal level.  They also present a resistance that increases proportionally to the frequency of the signal, thus rolling off your high end.
 
- Esoteric cables do an excellent job of preserving the integrity of your signal, right up to the point where it flows into the standard, ordinary, cheap wiring and components in most amps, DIs, consoles, outboard effects, and patch cables.
 
- A cable with good soldering and well-designed stress relief and ordinary wire will get you through more gigs than a cable with oxygen-free solid silver wire and poor strain relief.
 
- Above all, a $2K Alembic will do more for your sound (and playing enjoyment) than a $2K cable. ;-)