"Definitive" portable bass cabinet??

[dnburgess]

Dave, what crossover point are you using in your biamp setup? With a setup like that the B-2W (subwoofer version) would seem ideal.
 
David Burgess

[bassman10096]

Dave:  Please let us know how the two cabs sound Friday night.
Thanks
Bill

[David Houck]

I agree; the subwoofer version would be ideal if one definitely knew that biamping was the way to go.  I haven't yet decided.  Friday I hope to have the opportunity to try the Acme and the Eden both bimaped and full range together; but we don't get a long sound check so I may just run full range.  Right now with the Bag End I have the crossover set around 420; but I've only just begun playing with it.

[eschreyer2]

Hi Guys,
I was getting some funny phase cancellation last night that was swallowing my low end trying to run both cabs (two acme low b-2's). Frustrated, and slightly freaking out, I went to a bi-amp set up crossed over at a little less than 1KHZ. That did the trick and the rig sounded killer. A quick dive and catch. The gig was great. I think when I run two I'm gona stick with the bi-amp set up. For pratice, or smaller situations, I just run one full range.
Peace,
Earl
 

[David Houck]

That's strange.  I wonder what caused the problem.

[eschreyer2]

I must of had a phase inversion in one of paths and the waves were cancelling each other out. But anyway, the acme's make for killer for bi-amp system. Regarding the questions/comments earlier, they make for a great sub, full range, or high end cab.I'm digging the bi-amp setup right now.
Earl

[dnburgess]

Earl - what sort of cables are you using (e.g. Speakon, 1/4 inch, banana)? Is there any chance the Acme's were out of phase?
 
Also how were they set up physically (e.g. stacked, side by side, separated)? 2 B2s vertically stacked ought to make a killer line array.
 
David Burgess

[jaurigemma]

Hey guys, I am a new ACME owner, and wanted to chime in.  You can see a good picture of my rig if you go to the following link:  http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5019.html?1055819346
 
I bought these because I was tired of the jaded sound my SWR Triad I had (1x15,1x10,horn).  I have a B2 and a B4, and love them!  You can take my SWR stuff and throw it away, I'll never use it again.  I use the 2x10 & 4x10 in large gig situations, but in smaller rooms I'm using just the 2x10.
 
I have noticed that the 2x10 seems to have more bottom end oomph by itself, and the 4x10 is very balanced.  I use the 2x10 vertically when I use it alone.  I don't run biamped, I run an F-1X preamp to a Crest VS900 power amp.  No compression, nothing extra.  Pure, unadulterated Alembic tone.
 
The Acme cabinets love power, but my setup doesn't have a problem with that.  These things really sing when you hit 'em hard.

[eschreyer2]

Hi David,
I have 1/4 from the preamp to the power amp and then banana from power amp to speakers. When I was getting the phase cancellation, I was running one cab with the low pass out of my trace elliot preamp, and the other cab was full range. The only thing I can think of is that the signal from the low pass is out of phase with the full range signal out of the preamp so when you mix them together, the low end got phase cancelled out. If I had a scope and a signal generator, I could send a signal through and test my theory. I am actually an electronics engineer, but I don't have my own lab.  
As long as I run the low pass and high pass out or just full range, it's fine. The problem was trying to run one full range and the other just low pass.
I stacked them on their side. I've done the vertical tower, but I liked the way they looked on their side, kinda like a 4x10.
Thanks,
Earl

[dnburgess]

Earl, aha! I believe the Alembic F1-X exhibits the same phenomenon - the full range output is out of phase with the xover outputs. I have no idea why. It seems your Trace Elliot has the same design quirk.
 
David Burgess

[bigredbass]

The new MESA combos (the Venture 1/15 or 2/10) are the best combo I've heard in a very long time. Fabulous tone, thoughtful features, plenty (640 watts) of juice, and MESA build quality.
 
The best small(er) bass rigs encompass another of Ron Wickersham's innovations:  the ELF system from BagEnd.  Yes, I know it requires dedicated subs and a rack controller, but for anyone who CAN hear the time smear and the tone mismatch in most bi-amp rigs, it's an utter revelation.  Match it with an f2b and a stout, high-quality power amp and every other rig's deep end is a big, sloppy mess.  If you ever get the chance to hear one or try it out, don't pass it up!
 
The Acmes seem to have become the defacto standard due to clever design, good components, and a really cheap price.  The real disadvantage is as pointed out previously:  Due to their small size, they are less efficient lacking the internal volume of more typically-sized cabinets.  So bring lots of amp.  And remember, VERY few cabinets blow out from a great big amp running cleanly. LOTS of cabinets blow out from amps that are too small running into clipping continuously.
 
A great small cabinet that I remember were the 'Cabaret Series' range that JBL put out in the late 70s and early 80s.  You can occasionally run across these.  They were built like tanks, sounded fine, and came in a variety of loadings.  I always felt that they were an acknowledgement of the 'Wall of Sound' PA.  
 
J o e y

[David Houck]

Bill wanted a report on my gig last night.  Well the rig sounded great.  I decided to leave it in the biamp setup with the Acme on the floor and the Eden on top; the crossover was still around 420.  At sound check, the drummer complained about not enough definition from his monitor and the soundman said it's the same out front; so I bumped the high end on the preamp a little and that made them both happy.  The soundman is a bassplayer, so after sound check he offered to play some so I could hear it away from the rig.  Out front he had eq'd a nice tone through the ancient cabs of the house PA; but on stage the rig really sounded nice.  Throughout the show I was pleased that my sound was consistently cutting through and yet maintaining a great sounding low end.
 
Dave

[bassman10096]

Thanks for taking time to pass that info along.  I'm definitely in the market and feel like I have learned more from this thread than from all sources combined, thanks to you all.
Bill

[rockandroller]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback! I knew I wasnt going to be able afford an ELF active controller system for a bass combo, but I am now MUCH more optimistic about what is possible from a small box, so either the Acme B-1 typa thing or that passive radiator-assisted boogie look like something i shall be owning in the near future.  
 
I guess the whole trade-off with micro bass cabs is the lack of efficiency, now i'm pondering a solid-state 300W boogie walkabout -  as opposed to cranking 150Watts out of a half-dozen 6L6s (which was never ultra-portable to begin with)
 
Anyway thanks very much to everyone for their suggestions :-)

[dannobasso]

I found the F1X, T310, B2, 1604 combo worked great but I think that a bigger amp would serve me better.  
I'll try the 2402 I have instead. As others have said, Acme's crave power. (so do Epifani's)I have to compete with 2 4x12 Marshalls! I also refuse to haul SVT cabinets. I did see others moving them when I was down south, not me!