Author Topic: Sustain block?  (Read 665 times)

smokin_dave

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Sustain block?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2005, 07:00:47 AM »
Well,I guess the reason I'm thinking that way is because the photos of the Orion,Epic and Essence in the catalog don't show a block that the bridge is screwed into but rather the bridge screwed through the top wood.Very interesting.So,I guess that they haven't used a block all along since you had the mod done to your Essence but I am interested in knowing when they became standard on all Alembics.And on that note,I've just come to realize that it's my birthday today.Hmmm,should I call in sick to work and take the day off?Naaaa.I'll party a bit afterwards.

David Houck

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Sustain block?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2005, 07:26:39 AM »
Well then Happy Birthday!!

David Houck

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Sustain block?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2005, 07:50:16 AM »
Bob; as I have just posted in the Alembic Basses & Guitars section, I've stumbled across an Excel quote generator.  According to this quote generator, the block is $125 on a new Excel.

lbpesq

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Sustain block?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2005, 07:54:56 AM »
Happy B-day Dave.
 
Anyone know if Alembic ever puts sustain blocks in guitars?  
 
Bill, tgo

David Houck

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Sustain block?
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2005, 08:09:54 AM »
Bill; Jonathan's Little Bear has one.

kmh364

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Sustain block?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2005, 09:48:11 AM »
Yep, Jonathan's guitar has the block, but it's a neck-through-body, not a set-neck.

kmh364

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Sustain block?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2005, 09:55:58 AM »
Guitars like Tom's Ghost Crow (May's Custom O' Month)Skylark set-neck don't have the block.

bob

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Sustain block?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2005, 10:24:11 AM »
Hmm, took me a couple tries with that Excel quoter - I had to first deselect, update, then select and update again to get it to show up.
 
So much for my memory - I'd say $125 is a good deal.
 
trekster - I agree that if  you were using multiple plates you would definitely want them perfectly flat and held together somehow. But that seems like a nuisance, and my bet (just a guess) is that a solid block will be better. And even then, you want the block to mate as closely and tightly to the body itself, i.e. do a very careful routing job.

sfnic

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Sustain block?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2005, 02:57:15 PM »
From a raw construction perspective, a block made up of stacked plates will lose a fraction of inter-block transmission as the wave crosses material boundaries.  The tighter you couple the plates, of course, the lower the mechanical impedence and so the lower the amount of loss.  So you might notice a bit less sustain in a stacked block.  But it'd still be much more sustain than you'd get with no block at all.
 
Where the stacked plate version becomes audibly problematic is where the individual plates aren't exactly matched for volume and mass.  Each individual plate therefore provides a slightly different superharmonic resonant structure.  These can, under perfect conditions, create sum-and-difference resonances in the audio band that can affect the tonal qualities of the instrument.
 
The difference isn't huge, and in most cases virtually inaudible.
 
From a practical standpoint, if you're set up to cut brass plates, odds are you're set up to cut blocks as well.  So there's no advantage to the manufacturer to go with a stacked plate design, when it multiplies the tooling time.
 
Now, as Bob notes, the block-to-body contact plane is important.  You do want that to be as tight a fit as is practical for maintenance purposes.  Again, this is a function of the mechanical impedence of the joint.  Fortunately, here you're dealing with one material that has a bit of compliance, in that you can compression-fit the block into the cavity to achieve makimum contact and thus minimum impedence.  The downside of this technique is that it makes it virtually impossible to get the block out later.  
 
Alembic doesn't go all the way to an interference fit, but they do get a reasonably snug slip fit that, with proper tooling, can be disassembled.  And, in general, the coupling they lose with the slip fit, they largely regain via the attachment screw that holds the block down.
 
Oddly enough, one of the weakest points in the mechano-acoustic chain from the string to the block is in the two bolts that hold the bridge on.  By necessity, they're stainless steel, so there's a material dis-similarity at two boundary points.  Plus, the screws have a proportionately narrow cross-section, and so present a relatively high mechanical impedence to the wave.  This coupling has a greater affect on the overall tonality than might otherwise be thought, and is certainly a component in the Alembic sound.
 
nic

sfnic

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Sustain block?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2005, 10:14:43 AM »
Boy, can I kill a thread, or what!
 

jlpicard

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Sustain block?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2005, 01:22:54 PM »
Nic, Can you go into any more detail onthe effect on tonal quality rather than just sustain? mike

smokin_dave

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Sustain block?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2005, 06:07:28 PM »
I'm still interested in knowing when Alembic started employing the sustain block on all of they're models.

sfnic

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Sustain block?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2005, 07:48:23 PM »
When did they start?  Damned near on day one, IIRC.  I don't remember if Jack's #1 had a block (though I think it did), but I'm pretty sure Phil's Orange Osage did.  
 
I'm running late today, but I'll try to post some thoughts on the nature of sustain block-based tonality tomorrow.  

David Houck

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Sustain block?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2005, 08:21:48 PM »
Nic; I don't think it's killing a thread.  At some point I, and I'm assuming others as well, have to draw a line and cut the computer off and go to bed!  (Which is what I'm going to do now!)