Author Topic: My first fretless (Read 599 times)

slapbass · « **on:** July 05, 2005, 08:01:03 AM »

I purchased my first fretless this weekend (non Alembic) a Pedulla Pentabuzz. I can't believe that I waited 15 yrs to try and play a fretless bass. This is the best thing I could have ever done for ear training and faster left hand licks. But here are the questions What type of flat wounds produce what sound? I know there are a lot of TI fans here and have ordered a set for the S1. The Pedulla came with Chromes installed at the store. This is the first time my fingers have ever played flat wound strings. Are there any cool setups I should know about for a fretless bass?

Thanks,
Dale

811952 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2005, 09:03:43 AM »

I always used roundwounds on fretless (rotosounds, to be exact). If you're using the entire neck it will wear evenly. Steel wool to remove the grime every now and again will keep it pretty.
John

slapbass · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2005, 09:34:12 AM »

John,
The Pedulla has a coating on the finger board. Would this make any difference?

Dale

bob · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2005, 12:26:08 PM »

Well, you would not want to use steel wool on it :-)

Round vs. flats are a personal choice. I happen to favor flats and love the TIs, to the point of not being curious enough to try Chromes - though would be interested to hear your comparison.

The coated board will give you some protection against scratches and make it more practical to use rounds, if that's what you want.

As for setup, I think about the only thing notably different is that you probably want less neck relief than on a fretted. Some people say perfectly straight, but I find you still need a very tiny bit (like .010 or slightly less, depending on how you play).

Oh, and setting intonation is slightly more of a challenge, but I still feel it's quite important. Don't go nuts with it until you get more comfortable with fretless, you'll probably find yourself gradually dialing it in over time.

Enjoy.

tubeperson · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2005, 12:36:27 PM »

Pedulla is very specific about voidng the warranty on their Buzz and PentaBuzz necks if Rotosound roundwounds are used. I am using D'Addario half rounds, which sound great and do not wear out the glass. Nickel is easier on the fretborad than steel. They come in a light brown package for each string. In fact, the D and G strings are heavy, and really boost the tone. I still plan to get an Alembic fretless with Series II electronics.

811952 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2005, 01:10:06 PM »

Oh, yeah, the epoxy-coated fretless. I totally forgot the Pedulla had that and not plain ebony. I have no clue how to maintain one of those.
John

David Houck · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2005, 03:14:29 PM »

This might be a good time to bring up something that's been bothering me (well maybe bothering is the wrong word, but it's been on my mind). I mainly play fretted bass, but hope to start playing more fretless. On the fretted, I use a lot of side to side vibrato. My tendency is to do this on the fretless as well, but I'm probably causing an inordinate amount of fingerboard wear when I do this. I'm guessing that most fretless players move parallel to the string when applying vibrato; and I've been paying more attention to this when I play. But I am curious as to what other players do.

811952 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2005, 07:39:18 PM »

I have always done both side-to-side and classical rolling-of-the-finger vibrato, and on basses I've had for 10-plus years I've never had any fingerboard wear issues that were more than cosmetic. This includes an old rosewood P-bass neck on an old Jazz Bass which probably got 10- to 15-hours a week for several years and a Carvin 5-string that I played *to death* for a decade (while the Alembic sat in it's case) and which my brother now plays. On the other hand, I had a maple-fingerboard Musicman Stingray fretless which got ugly in a hurry and seemed literally to have soft spots on the fingerboard which wore very quickly. I also don't sweat much at all, which probably contributes greatly to the mileage I've gotten. I'm of the opinion that whatever comes *somewhat* naturally (and isn't totally heinous technique) and gets the sound you're after can't be all wrong (unless you're just lazy, which is of course totally unforgiveable)...
John

bob · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2005, 11:39:59 PM »

Personally, I think bending strings on a fretless is just plain wrong - even putting aside the fingerboard wear issue.

But if it works for you, fine. Just don't do it on mine :-)

slapbass · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2005, 05:31:43 AM »

I have been a bad string bender for years!! I guess I listened to way to much blues as a kid. When I first picked up the fretless I still bent strings for the first couple of hours but it just doesn't produce the same tone as a good vibrato technique. My ear told my hand to move differently and now just vibratos on the fretless. I filly picked up the 75 S1 last night and I believe that the fretless is about all I want to play anymore. Unless a little fret destroying slap is needed (WoooHooo).

The TI strings came in last night and I haven't put them on yet. A little case of this bass is a bear to intonate! The LaBella flats should be in by Friday. Hopefully this weekend I will have the patience to restring and break the fist set in.

Dale

David Houck · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2005, 06:49:19 AM »

Thanks for the feedback on the vibrato question!!

slapbass · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2005, 05:47:29 PM »

Well I just installed the TI Flats. These strings are very bright compared to the Chromes.
I will play them a while to see if the tone changes with a little play on them. The B string feels a little weird with the larger spaces inbetween the ribbon windings.

I have another question how close should the slots in the nut be to the fret board?

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2005, 06:01:20 PM »

Dale,
Check out Brother Joey's excellent post in the Must Reads section on setting up your Alembic.
http://club.alembic.com/Images/16271/16318.html?1107545767
It's helped me through two set-ups with a third currently in progress. I just switched my fretless to TI Jazz Flats as well (stepping away from DR Hi-Breams) and needed to reset the action because the TI E string sits a little lower than the DR did. It's close to set now, with a gig coming this weekend. I've been tweaking both my Epics in preparation.
Mike

(Message edited by dadabass2001 on July 06, 2005)

kungfusheriff · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2005, 10:02:48 PM »

slap,
The TIs will settle in a bit after a few hours of play, but they'll remain on the bright side for a good length of time--my set is almost two years old and I still have to turn the treble all the way down on my Baby Blue, which admittedly is a bright amp, but the E,A and D string sound is worth it. For some reason, the G is plinky.
I've found that plucking primarily with my middle finger, which is a little meatier than my index, beefs up the tone substantially.
Don't understand your question about the nut slots...are you asking how high the nut should be cranked to compensate for the TIs' low tension? If so, the answer is the strings will tell you by vibrating against the frets and generally sounding bad. My nut is up about 2mm on the E side and nearly flush on the G side.

bob · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2005, 11:11:31 PM »

(kfs - this guy doesn't have frets)

I find it fascinating that we have people here complaining about these TI low tension, nickel, flat wounds, being too bright or thin sounding. Turn down the treble to compensate for using nickel flats??? But I acknowledge that several well-respected members, including dela and dfung, have made the thin-sounding charge, so it's quite curious.

I leave the treble flat and actually turn down the bass a lot, though I then add a moderate boost using the SF-2, with a low pass set at 80 Hz with Q/damping a little beyond 1:00. Don't get the plinky G problem, but maybe more on that later.

And yes, plucking with a fleshier part of your finger, or angling your fingers back toward the bridge so you use more of the side than the tip, will round out the tone a lot. Or you can be punchy and brighter when you like, they seem very flexible to me (in more ways than one).

As for nut height, the general rule for fretless is that the strings should very nearly come down to the end of the fingerboard. 2mm on the E would be excessive for a fretless, I think. On my B string, I can't quite slip in a playing card without friction, about a 1/4 away from the nut. That would be roughly 0.01, or 0.254 mm if my math is right (wasn't a moment ago...).

Remember the general rules here. If you have buzz problems in the first 3-5 frets, then maybe it's a nut height problem. If the problem is higher up the neck, then first check the relief, and second check the bridge height (these interact somewhat). Nut height is really a fine tune for the first few positions, after you have the rest right. But as a starting point for fretless, the nut should be low enough so that the strings are very nearly grazing the end of the fingerboard.