Author Topic: Compressor use  (Read 446 times)

Dale M Williams

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Compressor use
« on: August 01, 2005, 09:58:50 PM »
Anyone recommend the use of a compressor with bass? If you have one, how often do you actually use it and how does it change your sound?
I have room for a single space unit in my rack to be used along with an F1-X and Stewart 2.1 amp.
thanks, Dale

richbass939

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Compressor use
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 10:53:11 AM »
Dale, I'm not the techno expert here but I have been using a Boss stompbox compressor all the time for years.  I don't know that it really changes the sound so much.  It just evens out the volume some, brings up the notes that I hit to softly and softens the ones that I hit too hard.
Your question is ripe for answers that have all the graphs and techno terms that some members know all about.
Rich

David Houck

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Compressor use
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 02:13:15 PM »
Dale; like Rich, I don't use it to intentionally change the sound, but to prevent spikes and even out the dynamic range a bit.  I use a rack mount unit with LEDs that show the amount of limiting.  If your right hand technique doesn't vary dynamically then you probably wouldn't need one for that purpose.  If your style however is one where you switch from say finger style to slap, and you've noticed that sometimes when you suddenly pop the E string you're sending a bit too much signal to your speakers, then it might be a good idea to have a limiter to protect your speakers.  In the same circumstance, it's nice to have it before the direct out to the house as well.

matthew90046

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Compressor use
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2005, 10:47:37 PM »
I am a bass player and an engineer.  My current project requires melodic and dynamic bass lines so I am not using a compressor at this time.  I have used compression in the past for heavier bands to control the signal going to the power amp.  With a compressor you can maximize the output of you rig and avoid deadly power amp clipping which can destroy your speakers and power amp.  A good compressor should not be heard (a.k.a. transparent).    
 
A great compressor for bass is the DBX 160a.  It is easy to use and sounds great.

jimbobv

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 03:58:02 PM »
Where in the signal chain would the rackmount compressor be best placed?  What are the diffecences in placing the compressor in the FX-loop -vs- on the output of the F1-X or just before the power amp?  I presently run it in the FX loop.

dadabass2001

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Compressor use
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 05:26:55 PM »
In the fx loop means it's also affecting the direct out, which I believe is a good thing. I'm actually planning to go back to using my DBX 166XL in the fx loop on my F1-X.
Mike
"The Secret of Life is enjoying the passage of Time"
 - James Taylor

David Houck

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Compressor use
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 06:08:04 PM »
I've run mine in and out of the effects loop and at different places in the signal chain depending on how all the components of the chain are interacting.  I have a very nice sounding reverb unit, but it doesn't play well with others; consequently, I currently have nothing in the effects loop.  My current chain is:
 
Alembic DS-5 Power Supply
Sabine RT-1601 Rack Tuner
Alembic F-1X Preamp
T.C. Electronic M*One XL
Alembic SF-2 Superfilter
Ashly SC-50 Compressor Limiter
Bag End Elf M2
QSC PLX 2402
 
The M*One seems to be happy with this setup, and this setup only.  Fortunately, it seems to be working very well.
 
With the limiter last (before the Elf), I use the limiter's output gain to get the right amount of signal going to the QSC (through the Elf).
 
If I need a direct out to the house, I have a direct box which I'll place between the limiter and the Elf.  (I haven't tried it yet; hope I'm not sending too much signal to the board!)

matthew90046

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Compressor use
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 07:02:31 PM »
If you put the compressor on the output you will be compressing post eq and anything else you may have in your loop.  
 
I don't know how the F1-X is wired, but I would assume that the loop is pre eq.  That being the case, if you use it in the loop, the eq will not push the compressor . You also get compression in the direct out if you set to post.  When set to pre the direct is straight off the pre amp.  
 
If you plan to use the compressor as a limiter to protect your equipment, I would plug it into the output.  That way anything that may cause a spike will be caught before it hits the power amp.  If you want a nice soft compression ratio of  2:1 or 4:1, I would put it in the loop.
 
Compressors are by far, the most improperly used audio components in a studio or rig.  Many people hurt their tone because they are not using them correctly.  I would recommend one if find that your dynamics need some leveling out.  Otherwise, just leave it alone and get a tuner to fill that extra space.

richbass939

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Compressor use
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 07:16:07 PM »
Matthew brings up an interesting point (Compressors are by far, the most improperly used audio components in a studio or rig.)  I've been using one for a long time but I wouldn't say that I know how to get the most out of it.  I would like to hear from the club about how to set one for different styles of playing, different setups, etc.  Also please remember that some of us have only stompboxes with minimal controls not the really good rackmount units.
Rich

matthew90046

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Compressor use
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 08:16:38 PM »
Some basics if anyone wants to know.
 
A compressor is a processor not an effect.  It is a dynamic processor used to control the level of signal. Here are the basic controls and uses.
 
Threshold (sometimes input):
This determines the trigger level of the compressor.  If set to -10dB, any signal going over -10dB will activate the compression circuit.
 
Ratio:
This determines the amount of compression.  If set at 2:1, any signal crossing the threshold will be reduced by 1/2.  This would be very little compression.  4:1 to 8:1 is a typical compression setting for bass.  If set to 10:1 or higher you are basically limiting.  At that point no signal will go past the level set by the threshold.  (sort of... see attack)
 
Attack:
This determines how quickly the compression circuit is activated.  If set to 30ms (milliseconds), the compressor will allow signal to cross the threshold point for 30ms before activating.  If set to 0ms,  as soon as signal crosses the threshold it gets squashed. A fast attack will catch that transient peak and protect your equipment if needed. A slower attack will let that initial pop go through and produce a more percussive sound.
 
Release:
Like attack, this determines how long after the signal goes below the threshold the compression stays activated.  If set wrong with the attack you can get pumping or breathing.  Here is something explaining that I found online.
 
When a compressor is making large changes to the input signal (10 to 12 dB or more), the noise floor will also rise and fall with the signal level. When this noise signal rises and falls drastically between signals, such as a heavily compressed, noisy drum track, you might hear the noise level breathing between drum hits. One solution to this breathing problem is to turn up the release time. This way, the noise floor won't have time to rise between drum hits.
 
However, if the Release time is too long, lower level signals after the peak will be lost as the compressor slowly stops reducing gain. This is called pumping as the lower level signals (noise included) slowly fade back up to their normal signal level. The secret to avoiding these problems is to achieve a balanced release time on the input signal.
 
Output:
A compressor reduces the level of signal.  The output is used to compensate for that loss of level.
 
Some units don't have all these controls. Some have more.  Often the attack and release are not available.  In these units the attack and release are pre set to a moderate setting.
 
(Message edited by matthew90046 on August 03, 2005)

dannobasso

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Compressor use
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2005, 12:22:35 AM »
Thanks Matt for sharing your knowledge. In the early 90's I used to use a Symetrix unit and now I don't bother with any of it.  
PA's, yeah DBX driverack( very nice all in one tool).  
Recordings, yeah Focusrites, Avalons and others in the studio. Bass rigs, no.  
Your rig is really only your personal monitor. If you play that loud and you need to protect your cabs, then you are louder than me God bless you. ( and I play really loud, sometimes 2000 watts loud). I rekon most of you guys play happier music too.
In the end if something makes you happy and increases the joy in your life, get it, buy it, use it and enjoy it.  
It has been my experience that most of the folks in the audience can't tell and don't care. They just want to have a good time away from real life. But if you blow up your stuff they can't get their groove on without you.  
Pax, Danno

88persuader

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Compressor use
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2005, 01:38:21 AM »
Very interesting thread. Personally I never use a compresser on my bass. I LIKE having full dynamic control with my fingers. I've tried using a compresser and/or limiter in the past and felt the evening of notes was actually robbing me of dynamics. However if you're using a small solid state amp or are in the studio some compression or limiting may be a good idea to avoid spikes or distorting your amp. I think where compression is really usefull is in recording vocals but with my bass i like being able to YELL and a split second later whisper. Dynamics ... what a rare and wonderful concept!Now if i could only get my drummer to understand them! :-)

David Houck

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Compressor use
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2005, 07:07:01 AM »
Danno wrote, I rekon most of you guys play happier music.
 
Hee hee!!  Thanks for the grin!

bigredbass

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Compressor use
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2005, 07:11:36 PM »
Dave:
 
Here I go hijacking a thread . . .  
 
What is your ELF set-up and how do you like it?  I just know I'll never get to try one in a store or see someone using one, so . . .  does it really work?  I read the tech paper on ELF at Bag End's website, printed it and carried it around for weeks before the light bulb came on and I 'got it'.  But what's it really like for a gigging musician?  Does it make real world bass, is it fat enough to carry a band, etc.?  I know Bob uses one, as well.  What's it like living with it gig to gig?
 
J o e y

jet_powers

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Compressor use
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 07:20:44 PM »
I find using a compressor does not rob me of dynamics, it's still in the fingers. It just keeps the signal in line when I get a little too exited. IMHO, it is an indispensible tool...
 
JP