Author Topic: AC Power Cable (Read 315 times)

kmh364 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2005, 06:16:44 AM »

Joey,

I'll agree. I'm a music, equipment and audio nut. On top of that, I'm an Electrical Engineer and a Power Specialist to boot. All this and I still have a problem paying big bucks for cables. Personally, I'd rather spend it on upgrading my equipment (or buying better stuff to begin with) first. Having said that, I won't downplay the importance of proper cables. That old weakest link cliche' again is certainly apropos here.

As far as power conditioning, you hit on the most important part: isolation from the crappy AC mains and the ability to buck/boost voltage. Electronics, especially audio equipment, are voltage and AC mains noise sensitive...the ability to not only isolate the power that your equipement sees from the noise and malformed voltage/current waveforms as well as adjusting for proper voltage is critical for good sound.

BTW, did you ever get your new bike? As an aside, I am now FINALLY MSF (national) and NJ State (local) certified as a Rider Coach (M/C Instructor) and am now currently teaching and licensing newbie motorcyclists and getting paid(!) for it.

David Houck · « **Reply #16 on:** August 05, 2005, 06:55:49 AM »

Joey; I think your suggestion of buying the chord and plugs is the way to go. It had been recommended to me that molded plugs were preferable. But your post and other correspondence I've received on this topic has me thinking the other way.

David Houck · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2005, 06:59:42 AM »

The power conditioner in my rack is pretty basic. So what are some good examples of an isolation transfomer equipped power conditioner?

kmh364 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2005, 07:26:52 AM »

Dave:

You probably won't be happy with the prices, but Monster (cable) makes 'em for both home and pro audio usage.

http://monstercable.com/pro_audio/pro_power.asp

Or you could try Mark Furman's product line:

http://www.furmansound.com/#

There are others (audio advisor again), equally or more expensive. Personally, I like Tice Audio. They started this whole clean power, isolation transformer, energy storage, etc. nonsense. They are now, unfortunately, out of business, but their products are available on the used (audiphile market). I love the old Power Block. It's the size of a 18V truck battery (an equally as heavy), and is not rack-mountable (to say the least). It was over a kilobuck new, but can be had reasonably used. The difference in sound that it makes is incredible, but it was not designed for portability.

Good Hunting,

Kevin

David Houck · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2005, 08:46:36 AM »

Thanks Kevin; I just looked at the Monster site you linked; and I guess that's too unthinkable ! I'll definitely be giving it some thought, and I'll check out the Furman stuff too.

kmh364 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2005, 10:42:40 AM »

Dave,

FYI, Here's a review for the last iteration of the Tice Power Block, which was a huge cosmetic departiure from the original (and markII models)

http://www.sdinfo.com/volume_3_1/v3n1p.html

Here is a Canadian website that has what appears to be an original Power Block for sale:

http://www.americansound.com/specials/used1.htm

And a place in Princeton, NJ called Savant Audio that has Tice amongst other brands of conditioners:

http://www.savantaudio.com/savant4.html#ticepwrb

I tried to find more info, and a shot of the old-style Power Blocks, but I couldn't get much now that tice is OoB. Maybe I can talk my roomate into taking a pic of his Power Block (converted to PBII specs. with the TPT treatment, whatever that is, LOL!).

Cheers,

Kevin

David Houck · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2005, 12:47:46 PM »

Kevin; I just returned to this thread and noticed my last post has an error. I meant to say that it's Not too unthinkable! Thanks for the additional info. I guess I have some studying to do!

bassman10096 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 05, 2005, 01:23:28 PM »

I just checked Ebay for Furman units. Some of the upper end (controls both voltage sags and spikes) are listed used for dramatic discounts off the new prices (from good sellers). Looks like you could get a pretty fair deal to cover your own rig. I guess the used market for power conditioning isn't as sexy as, say, stomp-boxes (LOL).

keith_h · « **Reply #23 on:** August 05, 2005, 01:45:27 PM »

I'm not sure a voltage controller/power conditioner is one of those things I would buy used. Since their job is to protect the equipment from power problems you just don't know what abuse they have seen. I have put MOV's into some of my amps (properly designed) over the years and had to replace a few due to them failing under extreme conditions. This was usually at outdoor gigs with generators but once from what I think was a miswired power distribution panel. It might be worth a try if it is cheap enough and can be repaired inexpensively but I just don't know. Sometimes it is worth paying extra for the warm and fuzzies.

Keith

bassman10096 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 05, 2005, 02:18:39 PM »

Duh...Point very well-taken, Keith. I must have forgotten why (unlike most of my gear), I still have the new product tags and owner's manual for my current power condition!

Used is probably not such a good idea. Is it?

Bill

kevin_k · « **Reply #25 on:** August 05, 2005, 02:35:05 PM »

Quick question, I have a Furman device in my rig. Not sure the technical name. It might be a conditioner or a regulator. The one I have makes sure that the rest of my gear gets a constent 120V from the wall socket. That means if the power dips, the Furman will make the necessay adjustments so that the gear still gets the correct power. Is this a conditioner or a regulator?

Thanks,

Kevin K

David Houck · « **Reply #26 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:10:28 PM »

Kevin; I'm at the Furman site now. They have a section for their conditioners and a section for their regulators. One unit, the AR-15 II, is listed in both sections and is both a regulator and a conditioner. From what I gather reading that page, as a regulator it delivers a stable 120 volts; and as a conditioner it filters and purifies AC power, reducing line noise and ensuring optimum performance. So it sounds like you have a regulator.

gare · « **Reply #27 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:21:37 PM »

Looks like power conditioning is a good subject for another long/seperate thread. ( I love reading those)
I agree with Dave, Joey's idea seems most viable when you calculate in the cost factor.
I've always tried to run power cable on one side of the box and audio on the other, at least try to get some sort of isolation.
Gary

bigredbass · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2005, 08:36:23 PM »

KMH

MANY congrats on your MSF certification. Friends, just let me repeat, they don't just give out Instructor tickets, you must truly be REEAAALLL qualified ! I just wonder how many of these nitwits (even NFL players!) who just had to have a GSXR or some other earthbound SST as their first bike wouldn't have been better off with MSF courses and GS500s . . . well, only their widows and beneficiaries know for sure.

No, I wasn't able to move on my KLR for now . . . but I hope I've only postponed it for a while. Geez, if only Honda would bring over the TransAlp or that 600 single that Yamaha sells in Europe . . . But I'll tell you this: After a close encounter with an FJR1300 and a terrific owner who gave me the lowdown, If I had the money and the experience, I'd be riding one tomorrow. Talk about R1 meets Venture Royale ! ! There's a terrific piece about its design and development in the 'Design Cafe' at Yamaha's European (moto) website.

By the way, do any of the computer IsoBar type devices (TrippLite, for instance) work well for music gear, providing that the capacities match up? A lot of times you can score this stuff from the usual 'Computer Liquidators!' type joints for pennies on the dollar. Any experience with these?

BTW, did you make if to the Left Coast to see Nicky win at Laguna?

J o e y

kmh364 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2005, 07:02:20 AM »

Joey,

Thanks much. It's taken my many months of hard work, money and personal sacrifice (i.e., lots of volunteering and personal vacation time-off from work), but I am 100% legit now as a RiderCoach. I'm actually getting paid and am teaching on my own (I'm currently teaching a class of 12 beginners this weekend as I write).

Don't give up: save your money and firm up your resolve and you'll eventually get the bike you want. Don't forget to take the MSF course!

I don't know about the data power conditioners. I guess as long as it can handle the current demands of all your electronics (especiallly power amps), I don't see why not. BEWARE: Surge suppression and noise filtering vary widely with different equipment...not all are created equal. Cheaper price usually means cheaper designs and less protection. The units that offer an iso. XFMR and voltage regulation are vastly superior to the Home Depot style outlet strips and other similar devices that have simple voltage clamping circuits ans/or rudimentary filtering circuits. That's why they are considerably more expensive. In my opinion, the only way to eliminate power line noise (not noise added via external RFI, spuriae or harmonic power contamination, i.e., via digital equipment w/switched power supplies you have plugged-in) is via an isolation transformer. Voltage regulation will also ensure that voltage sags or overvoltage won't affect your sound and/or damge your voltage-sensitive electronic equipment.

I missed the MotoGP at Laguna. I saw the boys (Colin, Nicky, KRJR and Hopper) race at Phillip Island in Oz in '03. I was actually at a private party in a Cowes, Australia (Phillip Island) at a seaside restaurant/club called the Jetty with Nicky (and Dad Earl), Sete, Marco, and a bunch of the MGP teams! I couldn't get the flagroom tickets I wanted (I called all day the day they went on sale and could not get in!) and I didn't wanna sit in the stands or the dirt for three days. I've spent alot of time in Monterey at the track (two 500Gp's and two World Superbike races), but I haven't been there since '96. I'm spoiled (and old) and will only do the private catered flagroom w/ CCTV deal at World Championship races, LOL!