Take pride in America's Products

[drz]

You know, I'm a little pissed these days regarding America's economy.  Lets get real folks, I feel we all need to become more diligent in our efforts to buy products which are Made In America.  Those products are some of the finest products made, such as Alembic.  Too many goods are being sold to Americans which are manufactured in other countries.  These products are in general, sub standard in quality and are manufactured through the use of what many would consider modern day slave labor/wages.  It is capitalism which deprives the American people of decent jobs.  It is pure bullshit.  I think the solution is quite simple.  If we buy american products exclusively, as much as possible, the American economy becomes more stimulated which in turn creates a need for more products, which would ultimately create more JOBS.  Have you gone to Wal-Mart lately and checked where the majority of goods were manufactured.  Disgusting.  America's jobs must remain in America.  Subcontracted government labor overseas MUST be given back to the american people.  I could go on and on about this but I just wanted to say to all fellow Alembic folk, god bless for supporting the American manufacturers.  Obviously, companies such as Alembic set the standard for American made quality.  If you don't support products and companies who pride themselves in American craftsmanship, well, SHAME ON YOU.  Is there something I am overlooking or do you agree.  All feedback appreciated.    

[bob]

Hmm... I would say that one small point you may be overlooking is that a very significant proportion of Alembic owners, and in particular members of this group, do not happen to be residents of the US.
 
Perhaps they're just trying to help us out? More likely, they recognize craftsmanship without regard to nationality, which is how I tend to think of it myself - one of those things which is absolute.

[bracheen]

Yes it's true that American based companies have moved operations to other countries.  However the reverse is also true.  Non American based companies have set up operations here employing many thousands of Americans.  I am one.  I work for Toyota as do about 100,000 other Americans, within our boundries, either directly or indirectly through the extensive supplier network.
 

[the_schwartz]

drz:
 
If you think you're angry now, watch Lou Dobbs on CNN.  The exportation of American jobs is one of his pet topics nightly.
 
The problem goes way beyond whether consumers buy American.  In economics, the prime directive of a company is to maximize its value.  In economics, this value is defined as the present value of the firm's expected future profits.  Thus, companies (especially publicly traded ones) are under intense pressure from analysts and investors to increase the current quarter's (or year's) earnings as much as possible over previous quarters and years.  If they don't, their expected future profits decline, taking the companies value down.  Executives who let this happen eventually become former executives.  At the same time, they are under intense pressure from competitors and customers to keep prices down.  Wal-Mart, for example, demands that its suppliers lower the prices of their products every year.
 
There are two basic ways to increase value: 1) increase revenues (money earned); and 2) decrease expenses.  Competition and the laws of supply and demand tend to limit the former, so companies put a lot of effort into the latter.  The greatest general expense for manufacturing companies is the cost of labor, so companies do as much as possible to cut it.  They cut labor cost by using labor more efficiently (i.e. fewer workers for a given level of production, automation, etc.) and by paying lower wages for a given level of production (i.e. producing products in areas where wages are lower).  
 
The exporting of jobs to accomplish this was made possible by free-trade agreements such as NAFTA and organizations like the WTO.  The Fortune 500 companies control over 70% of the world's trade.  Free trade is what makes it cost-effective for manufacturers to send raw materials and parts from one country to a factory in another country, and to send finished goods to America for sale.
 
Unfortunately, the barn doors are open, and the cows are out.  So many products are simply no longer made in America.  Imagine how much consumer demand for American-made TVs it would take for a company to build a factory and start making TV sets in America, especially when foreign-made TVs are flying off the shelves at Costco and Wal-Mart stores everywhere.

[bigredbass]

This is a global economy, folks.  Business has moved beyond the 19th century constraints that governments face:  territorial boundaries.
 
Global businesses ARE the new governments.  It's the ultimate expression of freedom in that capital is always searching, searching . . . that the search takes it to all of the world is no surprise.
 
Yet the real currency is ideas.  These are not confined by territory either.  Combine this with the economic power to prototype, build, and market, and anyone, anywhere, of any nationality, can bring the world to their door.  Satellites, internet, and FedEx have shrunk the world beyond any chance of reviving the smokestack glories of yesterday.
 
Success from here out will absolutely require a global view.  Autos are the ultimate example:  Right south of Nashville is the largest Nissan auto manufacturing plant in the world, and also (for years now) its MOST productive and efficient.  And it's got hillbillies (Tennesseans) building Japanese cars (Nissan)  for a French company (Renault, who is the majority owner), using some parts made here and the rest sourced from all over the world.  20 years ago it was a cow pasture.  
 
J o e y  
 

[David Houck]

Well my eyelids are heavy and I need to get to bed; but I thought I would check the posts in the Alembic group before heading up to crawl under the covers.  So please consider that I'm half asleep when reading the following ramble; and that I am perhaps not thinking as clearly as I would after two cups of coffee .
 
Another small point you may be overlooking is the subject of wood.  I would imagine there are those who might suggest that too many products are being sold to Americans made with wood imported from other countries rather than wood that was grown and cut by Americans, denying American forestry workers jobs; and suggesting that Americans should buy products made with American woods exclusively.  Such people might think owning a bass made with imported woods such as Ebony and Wenge would be un-American.  But I'm not one of them.  I like Ebony and Wenge on an Alembic.  There may be others who feel that Americans should only own basses with tuners made in America.  Should Americans quit buying Alembics since those basses are made with Gotoh tuners imported from Japan?  I also think there are many beautiful and high quality basses made in other countries around the world; and I don't think it should be considered un-patriotic to own one of them.  For instance, some of the members of our group that live in the US own Warwick basses; and some of them may be questioning your suggestion that they should only own American made basses.  Which of course leads to the question, should the European members of our group sell their Alembics and cancel their custom orders and only own basses made in Europe?  Should the Tennessee members sell their Alembics and only own basses made in Tennessee?  And I don't think it would really be reasonable to suggest that a violin player shouldn't own a Stradivarius if presented the opportunity.  Many of the members of this group live in countries that export products to the U.S.  Some of those products such as automobiles and beer are discussed frequently in this group; and their high quality has been praised by the American members of this group.  And if a member of our group were to start building custom bass stands that met my needs for safely holding my Alembics, it certainly wouldn't seem to be reasonable for me to refuse to consider purchasing such a stand from someone I consider a friend and fellow Alembic owner simply because the stand was made in a country other than the one I live in.  As Bob pointed out, as a member of this group I am a member of a global community of musicians who have a common interest in Alembic basses and guitars.  And I would expand upon that idea by suggesting that I am also a member of a global community of humans; and that in both the Alembic and the world communities strident nationalism doesn't really contribute to global harmony; bass clef or otherwise .
 
Now I really need to get to bed before this ramble gets any more confused .  Hope this helps.

[bob]

(Thanks for taking the time, Dave, have a good sleep.)
 
I was tempted to point out that our beloved coco bolo doesn't grow anywhere in the US (as far as I know), and let's not forget those Swiss collet knobs... Frankly, it bothers me a little that Alembic still has some literature that puts an emphasis on Made in the USA - it's true, but seems a bit dated to me. And if this same group of people happened to have formed a few hundred miles north, would their Canadian basses automatically be of inferior quality? Or should some of us not buy them, because we happen to live south of the border?
 
Clearly, this is not just about basses and guitars (though we have a lot of them in the audience). As Dave and Joey say, we live in a new world, and nationalistic approaches just don't make sense - if you care about the human condition as a whole, and understand how much we all depend on each other.
 
Peace, maybe someday?

[adriaan]

You may or may not know this, but the people of the Netherlands are very proud of not being terribly proud of being citizens of the Netherlands (genuine double Dutch). And if someone says Take pride in products made in Farawayistan, we're just not impressed. But show us your product and we might be impressed.  
 
There's one thing about this cost reduction mantra that always strikes me as self-destructive. You can increase profitability by cutting costs - agreed. You can cut costs by exporting jobs to countries with lower wages - agreed, but then who will be able to buy your product? The old employees have just lost their jobs, and nobody's hiring.  
 
The western economies have grown to what they are now by virtue of the fact that millions of people started to have money to spend on luxury goods and services (think back to before the 1950s). Take away the jobs on a big scale, and the economy will go down the drain.  
 
Probably the main reason for cutting costs is the fact that business decisions are oriented towards how much profit the shareholders can make in the stock exchanges, which often translates to how much credit they can get based on stockmarket value (think back to the recent financial crises). Stock used to be a way to find investors for your enterprise, now it's a financial proposition that must be attractive enough so that the stock won't go down, along with your creditability as an entrepreneur.  
 
... as he steps off the soapbox ...  
 
Adriaan
 
(Message edited by adriaan on January 21, 2004)

[dean_m]

Okay, I've got to reply to a couple of things here.  Seeing a couple of issues effect me directly too.  
I can understand DRZ's pride in all things made American.  Let's face it, we all have a certain in pride in all of our countries and heritages.  So when something really cool comes out of our respective countries, we sort of rasie a hand and say Yeah!  That's made in __________.  On the other hand there are things that the U.S. have developed and sold to other countries that we shouldn't be so proud of.  I won't go there though because this isn't the place for it really.
 
As Joey and a few others have stated, this is a global ecomony though.  Case in point, as many of you may or may not know, I do some work for (clinics and product specialist) and own a few Warwick basses.  These are made in Germany and owned by a German company.  Does that make me a bad American???  Beleive me, the money that I earn as a clinician gets well spent on American products such as taxes, Harleys and yes even Alembics.
 
On the other hand I also do stuff for Ampeg which manufactures all of its product here in the U.S. regardless of how much more revenue it could generate by sourcing manufacturing overseas. Does this make them bias?
 
One other thing. Harley Davidson.  Yes they are proudly made in America.  Yes they are proudly ridden by people from all different countries.  Does this mean it is better bike than say a BMW because it's made in the US?  I really don't think so.  When I go to buy parts and accessories for my bike though, they're certainly not made in America.  Kind of ironic isn't it.  
 
Our Brother Paul (the bad one) is a self employed marketing consultant (I believe this is true, Paul, correct me if I'm wrong) who lives in Belgium.  Would this prohibit me from ever employing his talents should I ever need that kind of a service?  NO WAY!!  He'd be the first person I would probably call.  
 
You also have to ask the Chicken or the Egg question too.  Is our economy bad because of overseas manufacturing or is there overseas manufacturing because our economy is bad.  I don't know about you but I couldn't support a family on $10 per hour here in New England, toys or no toys.
 
Listen, it's great to display a product that states Proudly Made in the USA.  I'm proud of my Alembics just as I'm proud of my Warwicks and Ampegs, and my Harley regardless of where they're made.  Yes I am proud to be an American too but also remember this, my Grandparents came from Greece which I am also proud of.
 
Now let's get back to making music!!!!!
 
Peace,
Dino

[palembic]

Communication consultant first.
I have a past as Video producer, mostly industrial video's, later more interactive stuff as DVD's etc... . Now out of work and doing a consultant job for the Flemish government on Cultural Heritage Policy and Masterplanning.
 
I would love to react more but I'm afraid my lingo is too narrow to express what I think. I cannot be short and precise.
 
Paul the bad one
 
 
Dino ...you have my cell-phone number!!!;-)
 
 

[mikedm]

Funny, I thought Dubya said the economy was fine and getting better? More RNC whitewash? Did I miss something?
 
Seriously, a number of fine points have been made, most of which revolve around the economics of business and ever fading international boundaries. Accept it, the global neighborhood is a reality.
Isolationists and those Bring Back the Good ol'Days parties need to get a grip. It's long since past when America could rely on itself for resources and the benfits a selfsustaining-nuturing-feeding economy provided and to be able to pay for it. You can blame Wall Street, the bottom line, or even the standard of living we so greatly tout as a birthright.
I don't think its possible or even fair to place the blame anywhere. I also think you can't remedy the economy by buying American, what does that mean anymore?
 
Joey articulated a good point about ideas bringing the globe into your living room, and I'd like to take it further in that that is what you ultimately purchase. That's the value I look for. It doesn't matter at first where it is made, I do check and unless I have some idealogical reason to not purchase a product from one country or another, it's fair game.
 
The years of good living have cught up to us. It costs too much to continue to support it. It's a consumer's world and businesses know it.
So today, I'll play my American-made bass while drinking my imported German beer. Then tomorrow I'll send my mortgage payment to a bank with international holdings and pray like hell that the job I have today will be mine the next day.
 
Mike

[the_schwartz]

I don't personally have a problem with non-U.S. made basses.  It just so happens that many great luthiers are in America.  Would we all be here with our Alembics if the company was non-American, or would we all be posting to the Fodera, Modulus, Sadowsky, or Ken Smith club(s)?  
 
 I think most people buy basses for tone, workmanship, appearance, and price.  Alembic, Fodera, Modulus et al cater to buyers concerned with the first 3 criteria, and manufacturers of non-U.S.-made basses like Ibanez, Epiphone, Samick, and most Fenders cater to buyers concerned with the last 1 or 2 criteria.  In fact, foreign manufacturing is what puts basses into the hands of people who don't have $1,000 to spend on their first bass.  Heck, even Sir Paul bought his Hofner because he couldn't afford a P-Bass at the time.
 
What I think is a bigger issue is big American companies like PRS, Gibson, Fender, Martin, Taylor, et al selling mediocre instruments (made in U.S. or elsewhere) at premium prices because people associate their brands with the high-quality instruments they once made.  At least when you buy a $300 Squier, you know what you're getting.
 
Joe

[hollis]

I've been all over this little blue marble and as far as I can tell, we're all in it together.

[drz]

My wife bought some Fruit of the Loom tee shirts for me the other day.  I was somewhat surprised when I read the tag and it said, Made in Honduras of USA fabric.  This kind of thing has to stop.  I understand that international trade is necessary to our global economy, however, as said earlier, $10 hr does not pay the bills and the hard working blue collar Americans deserve more.  Is the issue of illegal immigrants a substantial factor?  I don't know.  A cup can only hold so much water.  The economic support system of America may be shutting down after a while.  Maybe bringing back the Unions in full force should be a consideration.  Please don't get me wrong folks, I love just about everyone, I just feel the working class in america is being somewhat shit on and they deserve more.    

[811952]

I believe that if a US company takes manufacturing offshore, then it should be legally bound to pay their workforce (on whatever tiny island) the minimum wage of whatever country where they are selling their product.  That way we're not raping developing countries and the playing field is somewhat level (if the EU, etc., would buy into it).  Of course, Wal Mart won't be able to sell jeans made by 7-year-olds for ten bucks, but we will have a real economy for a change and the developing countries will actually get paid for their labor resources.  Not a bad thing for the world, I think.  Nothing is free, and good deals come at some expense to someone somewhere and I like to be able to sleep at night...  ;-)
PtJoII