Theories on medium scale five strings

[bsee]

Hey all-
 
My hand size is such that a medium or short scale bass suits me better than a long or extra long.  I have been playing five strings for almost ten years and have become dependent (lazy) as a result.  
 
I went on a little trip this past week and was able to spend an hour at Bass Central.  They have quite the selection of Alembics there and I had the opportunity to handle a few.  Among them was a five string medium scale King bass.  It felt great to play, but the B string wasn't particularly good.  So now I am thinking...
 
First, the neck of this bass was the simple maple/walnut pinstripe version.  How much better can the B string get with purpleheart or ebony neck laminates?
 
Second, I never go down past the D note anyway, mostly because it just doesn't sound that good.  Has anyone ever used a capo on a bass with good results?  I would consider a 5 string set up D-G-C-F-Bflat, and capo it up a whole step for any songs that really need the open-E tuning.  I might even be able to do that on a long scale bass, since the E-A-D-G-C tuning would be a little under 32 scale with the capo.
 
Any other ideas?
 
-Bob

[bassman10096]

Bob:  I have the same issue - loving medium scale basses because of they are easier on my shorter fingers.  I have heard, not sure where, that ebony lams in a medium scale neck approximate the sonic effect of having a 34 inch scale.  Now, I'm sure it's not exactly the same, but if the added stability of the ebony improves on the wimpy performance of a 32 long B string, I might find it appealing.  This question will become very important, since I'm considering whether on my next bass (which will be a 5 string) I need to go with a 34 with ebony lams to get that bowling ball in the gut fundamental or whether it would be acheivable with an ebony-laminated medium scale.
 
Kevin K (see Kevin's Custom with Series Electronics in FTC) has spent the past year playing a medium scale King 5 string with ebony laminates.  Perhaps he or someone else with experience playing a 32 5 string with purpleheart or ebony neck laminates could offer their comments and insight on whether denser laminates make a big difference.
 
I rarely go below D on the B string because it doesn't fit as many places musically, but playing that D and the lowest E fretted up on the B string offers fingering options I like.  Dropping the E on a medium scale to tune to D just doesn't work for me because of lost string tension plus I still can't play the D fretted up.  
 
I can't think of any reason why a strong enough capo wouldn't do what you are suggesting.  If you try it, I'd love to hear how it works.  
 
Bill

[kevin_k]

Bob,
 
As Bill mentioned, I do have experience with a 5-string med King w/ Ebony lams.  Unfortunetely I never played a maple/walnut version for comparison.  
 
You said,  the B string wasn't particularly good.  Are you refering to sound or string tension/feel?
 
If sound is what you are refering to, then by all means you should notice a difference between walnut and ebony lams.  You will also notice a difference in weight.  I really don't know if my ears could hear the differnce between purpleheart and ebony though.  
 
The one thing I can say about ebony is that the harmonics are cyrstal clear and sustain a long time, I am not sure if that is true about all Alembics or just Alembics with ebony lams.  The presence/sound of a G played on the B string is very powerful on my bass.  I also have, in my opinion a very good rig to achieve a full sound.  
 
My new bass, is 34 with ebony lams, but Series II electronics, so I won't beable to make a direct comparision.  I went with a long scale not because string tension.  (I never had a complaint about the feel of the B string on a med scale bass.  But I am sure I will notice a difference in tension between 32 and 34.)  The reason for 34 scale bass is the up higher fret spacing will be a tad more wider.  I have fat fingers.
 
I hope tis helps a little.  I can answer more specific questions if you have them.  I wanted to give you my general observations.
 
Later,
 
Kevin          
 
 
 
If  

[bsee]

Hmmm.  Well, one of the things I noticed when I briefly played a 32 four string was that I was able to play a bit faster.  In addition to scale length, the lower string tension and relatively low action could have been factors.  I did notice that I played that bass with a lighter touch that allowed my right hand to move faster as well.  One fear I have of a floppy B string is that it will force a relatively high action to avoid buzz and defeat the purpose.  
 
The MK5 I played at Bass Central felt floppy.  It was a brand new bass, so probably strung with whatever Alembic typically uses from the factory, maybe a 125 B?  The tone wasn't great either.  Maybe my ears were prejudiced by my fingers, but it sounded like it felt.  They had me plugged into an Eden combo (set flat) that should have had enough range to sound better than it did.  The amp was probably comparable to the Super Redhead I usually gig with, so it was a good choice from that perspective.  
 
I do admit that I am not familiar with the electronics package and didn't screw around with the knobs and switches much to try to improve things.  I would suspect that it could be better than I heard with a few setting tweaks.
 
I think I need to book myself a trip to the SF area.  I will bring my bass so that Joe Zon can refinish the neck, and maybe stop by Alembic for a tour first to chat and see what they have available to try.  Sort of a bass fitting exercise.  I had a three hour session with the Zon yesterday and really had a nice tone dialed in through the Bass Pod XT.  When I got it right, the first thought I had was that it sounded like an Alembic.

[David Houck]

It would seem to me that if the B string felt floppy then Purpleheart or Ebony neck lams are not going to fix the problem.  My guess is that the floppy problem should be addressed with string gauge or string tension.  Perhaps the strings that were on the bass were not medium scale; if they were long scale then the B would indeed be floppy.  So a new set of strings might fix the problem.
 
On your comment about tuning to D.  If you tune a B string up to D, that will make the tension significantly greater.  If you get an E through C set and tune down to E, that will reduce string tension a good bit.  On your Zon, try tuning your current set of strings to D and see how different the strings feel.
 
I've never tried the capo thing; but the first thought that comes to my mind is that if it were a good idea, string nuts would be a lot lower.
 
So my suggestion would be to try a different set of 32 scale strings.

[bassman10096]

Thanks for weighing in, Kevin.  I was hoping you would.  I had always meant to ask you specifically how the B sounds on your 32 ebony lams.  
 
I think I can handle floppy strings or go to a heavier string.  I'm pretty actively plotting my next bass - the 5 string.  I suppose I could handle a 34 scale, given more focus on working across, rather than up the fretboard.  But 32 is the absolute best.  Fast to finger, easier to reach further, etc.  I just need to play around with my new bass (which is a 32 scale) AS SOON AS IT ARRIVES!!!! (Sorry...nerves.).  Then I'll probably feel better making a decision.  
 
Bill

[kevin_k]

Bob,
 
I would have to conclude that the ebony lams makes all the difference in the world.  
 
You are correct about action.  I do have mine set-up higher then I would prefer.  I slowly lower the action every once in awhile, that way I can slowly adjust my technique.
 
I am really curious about any 33 inch scale feedback.
 
Later,
 
Kevin      
 

[bassman10096]

I think the only 33 scale Alembic I've heard about was EVH's.  I think Rickenbackers are 33.  

[kevin_k]

That's what I thought.  Unless Edwin gives the ultimate/highest appraisel, I probably won't even consider 33.
 
   

[bsee]

I will probably look for a short or medium scale four string on eBay for a reasonable price and play that a bit.  I'd like to buy Mike's Spoiler, but I don't think I can offer him enough for it.  Maybe a little effort with a nice four will break me of my reliance on that fifth string.  If that happens, and I don't think the trial bass is the greatest thing since sliced bread (will this cliche cease to be used now that everyone's eating a healthy low-carb diet?), then I will order up something nice from the factory.  I have a particular taste in finish for my 'ultimate bass' that I have never seen on an Alembic.  It's never a bad investment to get a used Alembic for the fair market value, since it can generally be resold for similar money.
 
Kevin- As far as a 33 scale is concerned, if you're going to order a bass, it should be no more difficult or expensive than a 32 or 34.  I don't particularly have an interetst in a 33 bass per se, but what would your aversion be that would require more prodding than selecting 32 or 34?
 
-Bob

[dannobasso]

I have 30, 32, 34 Alembics. 5 of them are 32 5 and 6 strings in wide (Jazz) and narrow spacing. All have purpleheart lams, 11pc, 7 pc, necks. The wide spacing gives the low B a solid feel. I play with very low action and use a pick when on stage and recording. I play really hard but controlled. (no scratches!) I have a 34 Excel 5 which feels a bit tighter than my 32's but you can really fly on the 32's. Everyone is raving about ebony lams. My talks with Mica and Susan confirm that. My next bass will definitely have them. I would not hesitate to get another 32. I play on the B string a great deal and have not been discouraged by how it performs.
Danno

[dannobasso]

I have 30, 32, 34 Alembics. 5 of them are 32 5 and 6 strings in wide (Jazz) and narrow spacing. All have purpleheart lams, 11pc, 7 pc, necks. The wide spacing gives the low B a solid feel. I play with very low action and use a pick when on stage and recording. I play really hard but controlled. (no scratches!) I have a 34 Excel 5 which feels a bit tighter than my 32's but you can really fly on the 32's. Everyone is raving about ebony lams. My talks with Mica and Susan confirm that. My next bass will definitely have them. I would not hesitate to get another 32. I play on the B string a great deal and have not been discouraged by how it performs.
Danno

[bsee]

Jeez, Danno, no wonder they are hard to find, you bought them all.  Where are you?  I am coming over for lunch!

[bassman10096]

I'm hearing a 32 with ebony in the back of my mind (where Alembic plans happen)...
 
Thanks for sharing your experience Danno.
 
Bill