Author Topic: Where do you put your thumb?  (Read 1184 times)

senmen

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2004, 12:38:33 PM »
Who needs to rest his thumb somewhere?  :-)
Mainly doing typewriter style the thumb is free around as the four fingers tap the strings at the end of the fingerboard. They have to be free to be able also to tap chords so therefore no thumb rest is needed nor possible....
 
Oliver (Spyderman)

son_of_magni

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2004, 04:11:04 PM »
Interesting, I guess I should spend some time trying to stop using my thumb as a crutch ;-)  My habit of resting my thumb on the fingerboard or bridge probably came from playing cello and upright bass.  Understandably, resting it on the lowest string that's not being played is a great way to help keep unused strings damped.  Now putting it under the strings?  I think I'll stay away from that, it might get stuck!  I love all the feedback on this though.  But Jazzyvee, regarding looking at your hand, the first time I looked at my left hand while playing cello I was really amazed.  It was doing all kinds of things that I hadn't been aware of.  Especially with damping strings.  It was like someone else's hand ;P
 
In any case maybe the lesson here is that, just like the left hand, let your thumb be free!  Don't lock it down, let it float and you will be more relaxed and fluid in your playing.
SoM

dean_m

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2004, 08:51:32 AM »
After so many years of anchoring my thumb in one position on the bass.  I had a rude awakening when I went to BIT.  That was the first thing my teacher tried to break me of.  It was impossible!!!  And, yes Paul, they did actaully call it a floating thumb technique  
But, when I switched over to 5 string, it was necessary.  The spacing was too much to try to anchor my thumb.  Every now and then I will rest my thumb on the B string which allow me to play my 5 like it was a 4 string.
I think whatever technique helps you play best is the proper technique, as long as it dosn't develop into something thats going to injure you.
There are techniques that will cause an injury, but in this case anchoring or not anchoring really won't hurt you.  
My favorite quote is from Jeff Berlin who basically says, there is no need to practice techinque, technique is something that will develop as your need to play music develops.  In other words, musical knowledge is the mother of technique.
 
Just my two cents!!!
 
Dino (bptfo)

bracheen

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2004, 09:19:47 AM »
Going to BIT was probably a priceless experience.  Attending Jeff Berlin's school in Clearwater is one of my goals. That's still way down the road but hopefully not in the too distant future.  I'm not getting younger.
 
Sam
 

dean_m

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2004, 07:46:16 AM »
Hey Sam,
 
Yeah BIT was a life changing experience.  I went there for the one year certificate and then taught there for 6 years after I graduated.  I still miss it from time to time being back here in Boston now.
 
Jeff's school is very small but I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone willing to learn music.  Jeff can be very controversial in some of his opinions on how music should be taught and learned.  I do have to agree with him though on a lot of issues regarding music education today.
 
Peace,
Dino

adriaan

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2004, 09:08:48 AM »
Come to think of it, I'm sure the floating thumb thing happens to me all the time. Some things you just don't know that you're doing them, and when questioned you try to answer in the same terms - and so my answer was about where I put my thumb when I decide to put it in any place in particular. (At least with regards to the serious part of my answer.)  
 
When I picture myself playing, I'm sure my right hand is traveling in all conceivable directions. The fingers often line up with the neck, rather than across the strings. The palm of my hand can come close to the strings, or go way up to use a little more downward force - probably a distant cousin of the typewriter technique.  
 
Then again I may be exaggerating the whole thing in my mind. Anyway, I don't play as much as I'd like to, and so fatigue is not an issue when it comes to choosing playing techniques. Let's see what happens if I start playing more often - I could of course try spending less time here ...
 
(Message edited by Adriaan on April 29, 2004)

palembic

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2004, 03:29:00 PM »
Hi my greek-american-long-lost-thought-brother-Dino ...how are you ...I think I will call you soon for a good uncle talk.
Yep ...my friend and first bass-teacher Koen Leeman was Alex's Sklarevsky's roommate for a year at BIT. He explained to me it was ...well ...oh ...huh ...life a life changing experience.
About the thumb thing.
Yep ...I float  and for a unknown reason the dampening of strings happens with my LEFT hand. If I study pictures of myself playing I see my left hand more or less flattened on the fingerboard and spreaded wide. It has a reach reason but also a dampening reason.
 
Paul the bad one

bob

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2004, 11:14:55 PM »
This is a fascinating disucssion.
 
I guess most of the slappers must have just seen the title of the thread and shrugged it off as, 'to each his own', otherwise by now we would have seem a comment like 'my thumb never rests'  
 
jazzy - I'm with you on this, better to just let the fingers do what they want, because they're way smarter than I am. Sometime last year (before my Alembic arrived) I noticed one evening that the little finger on my right hand was resting over the bridge saddle of the B string. I thought, that's weird, just ignored it and went on playing. But then I noticed it again a couple nights later, and became more curious about why it was doing that.
 
So I experimented a little on the B, with my little finger in various positions, and it turned out that it was doing a very subtle damping - somewhat like a compressor, perhaps. If it wasn't there, the B was a little soft and flabby sounding in comparison to the rest of the strings. But with a very light touch - and in a very precise location, within a range of less than 1/16 of an inch - it tightened up the tone very nicely.
 
At some later point, I noticed it would occasionally sneak itself in between the body and the string, sort of like what you described for your thumb. Not really pressed in there, but positioned just so that on a large excursion, it would damp the string a little, but with more gentle playing it wouldn't be in contact.
 
It's just amazing to me that 'my finger' figured this out on its own, with no conscious thought whatsoever.
 
Getting back to the thumb, it seems to me people are talking about at least two or three different kinds of 'floating', and it's worth being clear about that.
 
One case is when you want to move your plucking position up or down along the length of the strings, to get a different sound. Several people here mention this, though most of them are still looking for places to rest their thumb as they shift this way (end of the fingerboard, neck pickup, etc.)
 
Another standard case is when playing across the strings, where one suggested approach is to always rest the thumb one string above the one you are playing. That's useful, but I'm just not good enough to reposition my thumb that frequently... And assuming your wrist or arm is somehow braced against the body, I don't understand why you need to also brace your thumb - but that's just me, and whatever works for you is fine.
 
I kind of think of these first two cases as drifting or shifting, more than 'floating'. In my case, my right thumb is never braced anywhere. It just sort of hangs in a relaxed postion, more or less as it would if my hand were hanging down by my side, and laying perpendicular across the strings. But it stays in light contact with the fatter strings, and with my fingers angled back towards the bridge about 30 degrees, it always seems to be resting lightly on the strings below where I'm playing. Meanwhile, my left is naturally damping any strings above the one I'm playing, so both ends are covered - without thinking about it.
 
Sometimes the thumb decides all by itself whether to let a lower string sound a bit longer, or damp out immediately, or maybe do a little primitive percussive thing.
 
All this is fine by me. One of the great things about my Alembic is that the B is so solid that my little finger is free to explore new territory - it's not really plucking yet, but my third finger has become a lot more active, and I think the pinky is doing some new stuff sometimes (but I'm trying not to pay attention to it).
 
-Bob

palembic

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2004, 11:35:44 PM »
Brother Bob ...an amazing story about your pinky. There are moments I have that problem with my whole hands they are doing things not intentionally and not controlled by me. For instance in the neighborhood of a glass of beer or standing aside a beautifull woman ...oh ...huh ...in that last case I DO get the beating of which I always aske ...WHY?????
LOL
 
Paul the bad one

bracheen

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2004, 04:44:20 AM »
My fingers sometimes take a mind of their own when driving.  Especially the first two, or sometimes just the one in the middle.
 
About moving my thumb it's more for better reach than bracing it.  I've found in my case by  letting my thumb wander it gets in the way.  Then again since this thread I've been paying more attention to what the ol' digits are up to.  When I focus on where everyone is I get messed up.  I guess the bottom line is play have fun and what happens happens.
 
Sam

811952

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2004, 08:12:35 AM »
I think you guys have convinced me to videotape my right hand while I play something and see what I'm actually doing with it...
John

son_of_magni

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2004, 02:19:20 PM »
Bob, great post!  Exactly what I was thinking.  There is a big difference between moving your thumb around to different locations and 'floating' thumb.  Floating implies to me that it's not pressed against anything solid.  And thank you for the detailed description of your thumb technique.  It sounds like a near ideal method.  The only thing that I don't like is the idea that I would have to maintain my hand position (reference actually) by bracing my wrist or arm against the body, which I definately do not do.  That reference is what I accomplish by placing my thumb on the fingerboard or pickup.  Damn, if only I had two thumbs on my right hand!
 
Your story about the pinky is also interesting.  Similar to what I saw when I looked at my left hand when playing cello.  On bass I can't play if I look at my right hand, especially in a mirror.  It just gets me confused.  John's idea of making a video would be fun, and we could all post the results!

David Houck

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2004, 07:16:26 AM »
Bob; you said I don't understand why you need to also brace your thumb.  I don't know anything about anatomy and very, very little about physics, but I've examined this issue in my playing in the past and it does appear to me that anchoring the thumb makes power and speed more readily available for the fingers.  If someone who has always anchored the thumb plays a fast aggressive live and then trys the same line without anchoring the thumb, they may find the attack much less precise.  I think the word fulcrum applies here; and perhaps Newton's Third Law of Motion.  I have a video of John Patitucci.  He does not anchor his thumb.  His technique is similar to yours in that his thumb follows his fingers, muting the strings above those that the fingers are striking.  And he does it with no apparent loss of speed or precision.  From time to time I practice this technique some, especially on six string; and I also from time to time practice the technique of anchoring on strings rather than pickups, again especially with the six string.  But at this point, when I'm digging in for power and speed, I still anchor on the pickup.  But I do constantly work on my technique; so perhaps someday my thumb use will evolve.

flaxattack

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2004, 11:23:10 PM »
only been playing mine three days- orion 5 and have short stubby nubby fingers- god was not fair to me!
but so far- and i use my fingers instead of a pick
1st- my neck pick up has enough room between the pickup and the body that my thumb fits very comfortably in there the pick up itself is only bout an eigth inch above the body so its a real comfy position and i am just to the right if the pick up from that same spot  
2- if i want a bright sound i swing my hand twds the bridge pickup-or rest on the bridge p.u since it sits almost 3/4 of an inch over the body i also notice the sound is a bit louder and tad less bassy
3- i can also sit on the neck at the 24th fret when i want a warm less trebly tone
pveral the best spot i found is about 1 inch south of the neck pick up- best overall tone and volume
and to be totally weird- i fingerpick in front the bridge pickup using thumb,1st,2nd and 3rd stubs and depending on the tune fingerpcik with just thumb and 1st doe real fast repeating
one of these days i might try a pick....but there for guitarists or bass players that couldnt vut it as guitarists... haha
 

wideload

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Where do you put your thumb?
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2004, 09:52:08 AM »
I paid close attention to my technique at rehearsal last night, and my thumb never left the back of the neck. Oh... and the other one was mostly planted on the block of ebony between my pickups, sometimes anchoring on the pickups themselves as I move fore and aft. Funny, my thumbs were the only fingers that did the right thing on every song!
Flax- I too have Swiss Milker hands, making some of the moves I see impossible to replicate. My son has massive mitts, and can stretch first fret to sixth. But I am so very much more tasteful than he...
 
Larry