G String MWAH-Fest

[dallastx]

Fretless People,
 
I'm still in the evaluation process with my new Fretless Excel 4-string and I have noticed that it exhibits an excessive amount of MWAH on the G-string (the up side is that the G isn't DEAD as on most of my bolt-ons).  Now, I like MWAH, but the level of it on the G (especially around the 9th fret position) is far more pronounced than on any of the other strings, almost distracting.  Is this due to the roundwounds?  Is it possibly characteristic of Alembic?  Do I need to raise/lower the bridge on that side?  I have, so far, not made any adjustments as I have only had it less than 36 hours and is still becoming acclimated.  That having been said, unless its my imagination, it appears the neck (when eyeballing down its length) has already straightented out some since it arrived here yesterday morning.  I've never had roundwounds on a fretless, nor have I ever owned an Alembic, so some advice is in order here before I attempt to adjust something that may be inherent.  
 
THANK YOU!
 
STeve

[mica]

A coupla suggestions... If the MWAH is more mechanical, you can try raising the bridge on the G strings side slightly to give more clearance. You can confirm if it's mechanical by raising the bridge slightly and seeing how/if it changes. You can always put to back to the original height if you don't like the result.
 
Different strings will really sound different, especially on Alembics. If the original ones aren't quite right for your tone, then you should try some other styles. If you're used to flatwounds, the compression wounds may be too much.  
 
Try to work on your amp settings too - this bass may need an entirely different tone shaping than your other basses. If you're really boosting mids, you may want to back down a touch.  
 
Usually if you have time to give the bass a few days to settle in, the neck will naturally straighten out after transport. Of course, you don't always have that luxury if you need to play tonight.
 
Lastly, you may find that you will wind up adapting your technique on the Excel compared to other basses. Our electronics are very sensitive to everything you put in the string. Since you've observed your other basses were dead in that area, it's possible you may be playing slightly more aggressively in that region to compensate on those instruments. I know I do this on piano - I have to consciously remember when I'm not playing on my own instrument not to over play certain notes.  
 
See if you can study how you're playing, and if that's not the culprit, try some more familiar strings. I'm sure after you get more time with your bass you'll be able to get the sound you're seeking, sounds like we're close.

[dallastx]

Mica,
 
GOOD POINT!  It may very well be that I am overplaying in the affected neck region or that I am just NOT USED to hearing the notes ring out there.  As far as my amp goes, I have already made some adjustement to compensate for the Alembic.  In fact, I've flattened out all the tone controls and the Excel STILL SINGS!  I'm probably going to stick the the CX-3s for now as I don't want to do anything that might change the overall AMAZING tone.  Speaking of CX-3s, does the Excel ship with a 45-105 or 40-100 set? THANKS!
 
STeve
 
PS-Since I'm a newbie, I hope you will not mind my asking:  Is MICA pronounced MEEKA, MYKA or MIKKA???
 

[valvil]

Hello Steve,
 
All our 4 strings ship with 45-105 sets unless the customer requests something different.
Myka is the way you say it, and I'm sure she does not mind you asking.  
 
Valentino

[dallastx]

Well, my new Excel has had just over three days to wind down from whatever it was subjected to by UPS, so I figured it was time to do some tweeking.  I started with the truss rod.  Initially I found the nut on the bass side to be loose and the treble side to be little more than finger tight.  I tightened both up maybe a quarter turn past the point where they began to feel some resistance.  Then I raised the bridge.  Then I lowered the nut, just to see what affect it had overall.  Keep in mind, I did all this in small increments and between every adjustment, I would recheck tuning and play for a few minutes to evaluate the changes.  The point of all this was MOSTLY to try and even out the MWAH on the G-string, but also to become familiar with the adjustments.  In the end, I put everything back to where it was, except that I left some tension on the truss rod so the nuts would not be loose.  As  it turns out, the MWAH was not affected in the least, no matter what I did.  It is so pronounced that it is becoming annoying to me.  A while back I had a Carvin AC40 that did the same thing (to a lesser degree) and I ended up getting rid of it because it was driving me nutz.  The AC40 had LaBella Tapewounds, a non-adjustable bridge and active electronics (I mention this just for comparison to the Excel).  The Excel is fully (for the most part) adjustable and I should be able to tweek that MWAH down some, I should think.  Now I just re-read Mica's advice above and I'm wondering if this is just something I'm going to have to get used to.  Since the Alembic pups are so much more sensitive than the run-of-the-mill single coils I have on everything else.  OR, perhaps the Alembic strings are just TOO bright?  I LIKE bright, so I wasn't really thinking much about over-brightness.  AND, perhaps Mica is right and I may just have to adapt my playing to suit the Alembic.  Of course I'm not going to get rid of it, so I gotta do SOMETHING.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about when I say TOO much MWAH?  For example, when I'm down, say on the G-string third or fifth fret position, then gliss up to, say the seventh, or ninth, it sounds fine while sliding, but once I hit the upper note an STOP, it sounds as if I reached down and cranked the volume way up.  The MWAH rings out to the point that it makes me cringe.  Is this something I'm gonna have to live with?  Am I just not ACCUSTOMED to owning DECENT guitars?  Is this what it is SUPPOSED to sound like?  OR, do I need to tweek something else?  Again, none of my other basses (name brands, made in USA, but not Alembic class) do this NOR do any of the other strings on the Excel.  I'm open to still more suggestions or advice and everyone please accept my APOLOGIES for going off on an extended rant.  This obviously has me stressed out.  THANKS!
 
STeve    

[David Houck]

Just out of curiosity, play an E at the 14th fret on the D string and see if it has a similar effect.
 
(Message edited by davehouck on July 04, 2004)

[dallastx]

Dave,
 
I only get the outrageous mwah on the G-string.  On the others it is either more subdued or virtually non-existent (by comparison) as the string gets bigger.  Its really annoying, because rather than decaying after I pluck the string (with my finger, no pick), the note/mwah actually INCREASES in volume.  Perhaps I'm over-reacting, I dunno, it just seems ODD.  Again, maybe Mica was right and the tone of the roundwounds is just MORE than I'm used to.  
 
Here's another question:  The nut came raised about 1/32nd or so.  When I lowered it (most of the way down) it didn't cause the open strings to buzz.  Even though I raised it back to where it was, is there any reason I SHOULDN'T lower it again and leave it there?  I thought I would keep it a little high to reduce mwah, but it doesn't seem to matter and I'd like to have the action as low as possible.  I'm unfamiliar with an adjustable nut, so if I'm missing something here in the concept, please clue me in.  THANKS
 
STeve

[mica]

Something that's constrained to one string alone may be the string itself. Send your shipping address to me at mica@alembic.com and we'll send you a new string to try out. In the meantime, you may want to try another type of string.
 
The nut is designed to eliminate a buzz on an open string that goes away when you fret. It's also used to set the string height to where you prefer. We usually leave a small gap under the nut in case the player want it lowered even more. Once you press down on the string, the nut is put of the picture.  
 
It is possible to not make the over mwah sound happen? I mean, have you experiemented with different ways to play in that position to see if there is any contributing factor with your grip? Could you have a friend try it and see if it's the same? Here's why:
 
We made a short scale bass one time that the particular customer could make a really awful sound happen on one or two notes, but nobody else could do it. We eventually wound up making him another bass and selling the orginal to another player who knew about the original owner's problem, but could not duplicate it with their playing.  
 
Since you're observing a problem, we need to eliminate possible sources to understand what is going on and to be able to solve it for you.

[dallastx]

Mica,
 
Thank you for the quick response.  I appreciate your concern.  Let me apologize up front for being a WHINER.  I was gone all day, so was away from the bass and now able to give it a fresh approach this evening.  I took your advice and gave it a good workout, trying making it NOT buzz/mwah, whatever you want to call it.  I am able to do so one of two ways.  If I consciously play the G string with a considerably lighter touch (right hand) than the other strings, or if I mute the notes after I hit them, vice letting them ring (sustain).  Let me add that I do not consider myself as having an aggressive-style attack.  The two things that puzzle me most are that NONE of the other strings make the sound I've been complaining about and of all strings, its the G that is always the most dead on virtually any bass I've ever owned, some being worse than others.  However on this one, the G is the brightest and sustainiest (sp?) in the exact spots that are usually dead sounding on other guitars.  So, all I can deduce at this point is that the Alembic electronics are just so amazing that I can actually hear things I wasn't able to hear before (and I'm a moron), I still need to tweek the thing to just right combination of truss/nut/bridge (and I'm a moron), the CX-3s are just too bright for me (and I'm a moron) OR, I'm just a moron.  Also, I appreciate your kind offer to send me another string, but I actually have other strings here I can put on it, both flat and round, should it come down to that.  One thing I know for sure is that I am attempting to compare this wonderful instrument to my other basses (past and present), none of which are are of the same caliber as an Alembic.  Not only that, I've only had it a few days and there should naturally be a learning curve as I adapt to its nuances. Meantime, I will persevere.  Thank you so much for your attention.
 
STeve

[hollis]

Steve,  
 
I know that you're dealing with a fretless bass, and my experience with Alembic is of the fretted higher frequencies...  However, please allow my point of view for what ever it may be worth.
 
It took me about three weeks of adjusting my Skylark before I stopped trying to make it play the way my other guitars played.  The electronics are almost other worldly. They pick up everything... and I do mean everything.  At first, that was a double edged sword for me.  I've played guitar for over 40 years, and up until my Alembic, I considered myself a pretty clean guitarist....  Let's just say that the slop just wasn't coming through with my other guitars.  
 
Consequently, I've spent the last several months reevaluating my touch.  As a result, my touch has become lighter and much much cleaner.  And now the adjustments I make to the guitar are far more subtle, and yet every subtle nuance seems to bring out further subtleties.    
 
I guess what I'm saying is that the more I learn about this fine instrument, the more there is to learn.  
 
After all, for me anyway, the joy is in the learning.....  
 
Enjoy
 
(Message edited by hollis on July 06, 2004)

[dallastx]

Hollis,
 
Hi and thanks for your input.  I think you may have something there, since I've already tried just about everything else (except new strings) to correct it, with no success.  HOWEVER, to remove the pickups, etc from the mix, I have begun testing unplugged after making adjustments and this 'mwah', buzz, or whatever it is (sounds almost like a SITAR) just will not go away.  I played a near identical model at a local music store yesterday and it was clean and quiet no matter how hard I tried to make it sound ugly.  Strings are the only thing left and I gotta be honest, I don't hold out much hope for that being the fix.  Thanks again for your attention...
 
STeve  

[wayne]

STeve-
 
When is another time you can drop by Larry Morgan's?  If we could figure out a mutually beneficial time, I'll bring my fretless.  We can see if your 'mwah' shows up and/or just compare the 3 different basses.  Mine would also give you an opportunity to test drive the feel of TI Jazz Flats.
 
email tx.bassic@earthlink.net

[jazzyvee]

forgive my ignorance here but what is MWAH?

[dallastx]

Wayne,
 
Look for an email from me...
 
STeve

[mica]

(For those who have been watching, Steve and I have been conversing by email and almost by phone.)  
 
Back in my first post I encouraged you to try a new string. In my experience (which is only with Alembics), Something that's isolated to one string will likely be caused by the string itself or something like a burr on the string saddle. The pickups can't separate out the signals from each string, likewise with the electronics. We're absolutely looking at something physical here, and almost certainly something that can be corrected if you give us a chance.
 
jazzyvee - go ahead and say MWAH out loud and it should give you a pretty good idea of the fretless tone Steve is referring to. I realize that it looks like an acronym for something in the previous posts (maybe Most Wicked And Horrible? Naaaaah   )