Author Topic: Johnny Ramone,Rick James  (Read 521 times)

keavin

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Johnny Ramone,Rick James
« on: September 16, 2004, 09:13:09 PM »
johnny:prostate cancer @ age 55. rick: @ age 56 diabedic.  legends of the music game, anybody got any take on these two 'hall of fame' artists careers? im old school and thought both cats we're pretty groovy.

bigredbass

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Johnny Ramone,Rick James
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2004, 10:35:39 PM »
I'll say the same thing I usually say after these types of announcements:  These men died WAY too young, and God Rest Their Souls.
 
But . . . how long might Rick James have lived had he not done cubic yards of cocaine?  The music business is just SOOO woefully short of positive role models.  Cats have been dying from consumption since the dawn of the Jazz Age, thru the beat generation, the Sixties, disco, punk, metal, country . . . . I just get so tired of so many talented people throwing their lives away for booze and junk. It just happens again and again and again.  It may strike a nerve here in this particular forum, and I mean no disrespect, but do you REALLY think Jerry Garcia is grateful now?
 
Want to be cool?  Live to be really old, and die in bed with your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren at your bedside. . . . not from a coke heart attack before you can even join AARP.
 
Friends, believe me:  I've seen human beings ingest everything known to man.  IF I could have found the first user of whatever who really was cooler, better, sexier, etc., I'd have worn them out to make them tell me the secret.  I'm still looking.  I HAVE found their OTHER secrets: rehab, failed marriages, broken homes, arrests, convictions, crashed carrers, failed lives . . .  
 
When will we ever learn?
 
J o e y

kungfusheriff

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Johnny Ramone,Rick James
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2004, 04:44:25 PM »
The autopsy results are in...according to the AP Rick James had cocaine, meth, Valium, Xanax, Vicodin and other drugs in his system but not at life-threatening levels. The official cause of death was a heart attack brought on by an enlarged heart and aggravated by pneumonia and the residual effects of the drugs in his system.
Sad.

dannobasso

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Johnny Ramone,Rick James
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2004, 07:41:11 AM »
Cocaine's a hell of a drug. Rick James. The man gave us some great grooves. I thought he was cleaned up. I guess I was wrong. How cool was it that he posed with a Rick on his album!
So do we need any more proof that drugs are destructive? Drugs are bad... don't do drugs... mmmmkay?    MMMKAY! Mr. Mackie
Danno

David Houck

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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 10:32:09 AM »
Joey, since you asked.  And I'll try to be very brief.
 
Not every one tries drugs just to be cool.  For some it is an escape from the suffering they experience in their lives.  Each person's path is unique, and none of us can know what another experiences.  For instance, for a kid who lives each day with an abusive parent, whose life seems to be one of constant suffering, the few hours of bliss drugs offer can be very attractive.  For others, it may be on some level part of a spiritual search; the experience of a meaningful change in perception.  Again, each person's life is different.  For some, there is a strong desire for a spiritual experience, or spiritual understanding of life, that the religious path of their parents, or lack thereof, did not provide.  For them, drugs may provide the first hint that there are indeed alternative spiritual paths.  And then there are those, as you have stated, who only try drugs because their friends do and they think it's cool.
 
In the sixties, LSD opened the doors of perception to many people who found the experience of perceiving the world from such a totally different perspective to be a spiritual awakening.  As a result, many of them soon found spiritual paths to follow and left the drugs behind.  Others did not.
 
Mushrooms, peyote, etc. have been integral to various spiritual practices throughout history.  Under the guidance of a spiritual advisor, as for instance in the American Indian peyote cults of the nineteenth century, they can provide that glimpse of the sacred.
 
Personally, I would not advise anyone to use drugs.  For those who seek spiritual experience, there are many spiritual practices and teachers whose guidance will lead to a spiritual path deeper and more profound than that of drugs.  For those who wish to escape the suffering of their lives, there are also paths available; a change in environment, counseling, spiritual teachers, etc.
 
I guess my point is that for some, drugs may be a valuable teacher, a signpost along the way.  For some others, drugs may be a warning sign of serious problems in one's life that need addressing.
 
In the interest in being brief , I'll stop here.

hollis

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2004, 02:43:32 PM »
This thread seems to be calling my name?.
 
I too shall be as brief as possible.
 
All in all, I tend to agree with Dave's points of view on this subject.
 
My life has been shaped by every experience, some good, others not so good.  The skill has come in the balance.  Sadly, I?ve lost family and friends to many forms of abuse.  Abuse of power killed several dear friends in Vietnam.  Substance abuse has taken many others.
 
Does this mean that all power is bad?  Should I have avoided all mind-altering substances?
 
Too late!  Can?t turn the clock back.  The truth is, I wouldn?t change one heart wrenching moment any more than I would change those filled with blissful perfection.   I am the sum total of all these experiences and I feel pretty damn good inside my own skin.  
 
I try to stay as far away from generalizations about drugs as I do about anything else.
 
There have been many tragic losses.
 
There have also been paramount achievements, both spiritually and artistically.
 
End of sermon
 
Take good care.
 
-Hollis  

bigredbass

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2004, 10:55:58 PM »
I am now old enough to accept that there are many valid points of view in this big world that's full of many experiences and revelations I shall never realize myself.  And I really dig being here with all of you.
 
But speaking strictly and only for myself, I will never change my mind about this.  I could never choose to grease the hinges on the doors of perception that way.  Life is precious, terrifying, exciting, heartbreaking, bright as the clear blue sky and as dark as a coalmine at midnight.  But this is a journey on the way to somewhere better, and I choose to do it the hard way.  I wasn't built to be a tragic loss, and I guess I'll just have to sweat out my achievements, knowing full well they won't be paramount:  But they'll be mine.
 
You must understand this triggers such anger in me because I wonder what (Entwistle, Hendrix, fill in your favorite here) would sound like NOW.
My mind simply doesn't understand dying early just to feed the monkey.
 
J o e y

bracheen

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 03:05:39 AM »
What I remember about the sixties and early seventies is the spiritualality and conscience opening virtues of acid and the like was hype.  Tripping was about getting high. Yes, I did it to.  Did it give me any great new insights or revelations? No, and if I had spent that time more wisely, say in studying, my mind would have be widened much, much more than 12 hours of riding out a chemical could have ever done. I'm still paying the price physically for those years of being young, wild, and free.
 
Joey is right, do the research not only on the dead but the living with ravaged bodies and minds.
 
My 2 cents worth of soap box.
 
Sam

palembic

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2004, 04:35:17 AM »
Hi friends ...what I am going to write is highly personal ...it is not private so everybody may know  it but ...well ...you'll understand.
Some ideas:
 
- Drugs is a VERY cultural Loaded word. I think the original meanings could be found in a healing way. Although that meaning was in a control mode: you have to be in control of what you do or try to achieve I think. When the drug gets out of control it is NOT a good thing.
 
- Joey and Dave ...you are saying the same tings but approached from a different angle. The only thing that Dave added is: how to cope with the WANTING to reach the goal in life -the more spiritual side- and in no way able to reach it by means of your own. You are looking for help. A drug can help.
 
- I think we ALL look for ways to soften the sharp edges of life. I drank a lot of alcohol. I was never dead-drunk, but the right amount of alcohol made life softer, easier to cope with, more sunshine, ...it made me feel more happy with the woos of everyday life. I stopped drinking the moment I felt that alcohol -and the urge for it- began to take control. On that moment I start to look out for ...more social accepted drugs = life softeners.
 
- Now this is interesting. Is sex a social accepted drug?? Is smoking (it WAS once!)?? Is playing music (you know ...bass guitar ...they come in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 strings and are sounding very low)?? Is violence??? Is television? Are computergames??
 
- You will not believe me but there are social accepted drugs that you even not know you take them.
You want proof?
Who wants to do an experiment with me and this is a challenge for all US people!
From today BAN all nutrition that includes ADDED sugar, chemical, natural, brown, liquid whatever ...NO sweet taste.
So ...no beers, no alcohol, no syrups, jam, chocolates. Read the notes on the packs, if it says SUGAR ...don't eat it. Even if it is a chemical sugar.
Sugar is the most social accepted drug -and destroying drug- of life.
Do the experiment for just 3 weeks.
After exactly 4 days the de-tox signals will appear: you will have terrible headaches, you will feel highly incomfortable.
they will last until the 10th day.
After that period your body -the pancreas more specific- will have re-learned to get the so necessary sugar (you NEED sugar, your muscles do) out of the food you eat. You will feel more active and alert in mind and physically.
 
Believe me ...I've been there.
Sugar is one of the most hidden life-softeners there exist. And they kill ...a LOT! And they will kill a lot more. Did you checked the overweight-ratio of people??
The pancreas -who is out of work because people get the sugar pure- stores all the energy in fat for time to come ...HA!
 
Do you want to live through a De-tox session. You are not addicted??? Do the test ...it will not harm you but it will prove the fact that you are addicted to someting you even didn't know. O ...nutrition scientist KNOW this already a LONG time but the foodbusiness-cartel is even more powerfull as the petroleum-cartel!
 
Drugs ...very strange topic.
 
Another 2 cents (yeah right)
 
Paul the bad one
 

David Houck

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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2004, 08:21:35 AM »
Hollis; I share the idea that all of my life experiences have brought me to where I am right now, and that I can therefore accept them all.
 
Joey; I am certainly not suggesting that you take drugs for whatever reason.  And I am not suggesting that your decision to pass up drugs makes your journey any less relevant.  Your journey is your journey and it is as relevant to your experience as anyone else's journey is to their experience.
 
Sam; not everyone's experience of the sixties and seventies was the same as yours.  While for you it may have been hype, for some others it was not.  One of the best known examples is Richard Alpert.  LSD opened the door for Alpert, and from their he left drugs behind and found his spiritual path.  The result was a lifetime of compassion and selfless service to countless others who are no doubt grateful that Alpert tried LSD early in his life.  And there are many others who had a similar result.  Does this mean everyone should try LSD?  No it does not.  Each person's path is different.  Today there are many more choices of paths to spiritual awakening and/or fullfillment available to people than there were in the sixties.  There is much more information available.  And in my opinion there are better choices than LSD; but it's only my opinion based on my experience.  My point here is that just because drugs were only hype and only about getting high for you in the sixties, that doesn't mean it was that way for everyone.
 
Paul; nice post!  I really like the part about the sugar.  And I've done the ten day rice diet; your body does go through changes.
 
Dave

hollis

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2004, 11:20:14 AM »
God, I love this group of folks.
 
I thank you all for your very interesting, thought provoking points of view.  It's all part of the process....  I'm glad that we're in this thing together.

palembic

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2004, 11:30:47 AM »
Brother Hollis,
 
it's time to consult a shrink ...you MUST be a bassplayer in denial!!!!!!
hehehehehe....
 
Paul the bad one

bracheen

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2004, 12:19:08 PM »
Dave, fair enough, your point is well made and taken. Clearly we moved in different circles. I think I would have liked yours better. My circle seemed hell bent on self destruction sometimes. Hindsight, huh?  
 
I didn't mean to take away from your experiences or lessons learned from them. They are quite valid. You?re right, we?re all different and generalizing is rarely a good idea.  It's just that where I was I saw more bad than good.
 
Sam

dannobasso

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2004, 03:32:44 PM »
Does experimentation transfer to the children? I teach ED special ed kids from horrid backgrounds. A kid chose drugs over the summer and hasn't returned to school. Kids aren't tuning in while listening to Jerry and the Airplane. They are dying on E, Meth, coke, herion and crack. Herb is the least of it.  
One man's  opinion.
Danno

hydrargyrum

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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2004, 02:58:30 PM »
There have been occasions in my life where I felt just about the lowest I could conceive of.  Then suddenly I could conjure a sense of wonder and beauty that reaffirmed my faith in the majesty of the world around me, just by eating a piece of paper half the size of my pinky nail.  I have had good and bad experiences, but I relate each one to being a part of my own consiousness revealed in dazzling glory.  That said, these times are behind me now for the most part (I still enjoy a good wine, cigar, etc).  What hasn't changed is the memory that my world is indeed intrisically related to my perception of it.  We each are charged with the personal responsibility for our decisions, and the stakes are the highest possible.  But before we condemn drug use as a whole we should consider that there would be no Purple Haze, no Lucy in The Sky, no Strange Brew, or any other myriad of incredible songs that were inspired by these substances, and there is no way to quantify the effect that they had on the people making the music.  Just listen to the Beatles after Bob Dylan introduced them to marijuana, we see a change from I want to Hold your Hand, to She Said She Said (a song composed while John, George and Peter Fonda were tripping).  Would their music have progressed, sure almost certainly, but would it have been as good?  Who can say?