Author Topic: Speaker wiring question... (Read 213 times)

jagerphan84 · « **on:** October 03, 2004, 06:40:44 PM »

I just picked up a couple of interesting cabinets for a great price (courtesy of a fellow club member) and I am seeking advice on the best way to run them both full-range. Would it be best to split the full range signal out of my F-1X into both channels of my power amp, or is it feasible to install a parallel output into one of the cabs? I tried using the crossover, but the cab receiving the low end lost all clarity taking all the bass. Running one cab full range sounds great and I'm sure two would be even better. Here's a look at the cabs:

They consist of four 5" speakers on the front and a 15" passive cone on the back. They can handle an impressive amount of power; I had to turn my Crown XLS602 up pretty high before things started getting dirty. I'm looking foward to using them as a rig for parties and gigs where I am concerned of flying objects, spilled beer, etc. Here's what's sitting in my "bedroom" - The bed is up off the ground to make space for them...

My neighbors HATE me. Adam P.S. - Anyone recognize those little boxes with the tie-dye covers?

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2004, 06:52:55 PM »

Just had another thought - what if I ran full range into one channel of the power amp, and ran low pass with the crossover all the way up into the other channel of the amp? Would this give me another full range signal, or would there be significant loss on the high end? I'd just go try it myself, but it's getting late...

dela217 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2004, 04:35:41 AM »

I recognize the tie dyed boxes! In fact, you beat me to them. He also has some other interesting stuff for sale from that same era too. I am glad to see they went to a good home. Have you tried standing on them yet? If you ever get tired of them, I could give them a good home.

adriaan · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2004, 05:01:42 AM »

Not the same era, but somehow those tie-dyed boxes remind me of Peterson combo amps. Anyone have any experience with those?

gare · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2004, 07:43:52 AM »

How do the 5 sound ? Well, I guess a better question is, how do they sound compared to a horn ?
I've been toying with the idea of replacing the horn in one of my cabinets with a 6.

G

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2004, 04:51:08 PM »

Michael: I haven't actually tried it, but I have no doubt they could take it. They are tanks!

G: The sound is very nice, and surprisingly full. I absolutely think the sound is better than a horn. I have never been a big fan of horns to begin with, though.

It appears that one of the two cabs has at least a blown speaker, if not the 15 passive cone in the back, if not everything. The top cab of the two in the pic sounds fantastic, but the bottom one is nothing but fuzzy, dirty mud. I will have to do further tests when my neighbor isn't home to be sure. Anyone got any tips on how to tell if a speaker is good or blown (other than the sound...)?

Oh, and I tried out the low pass with the frequency cutoff all the way up into the good speaker, and the sound was pretty sweet, although it did seem to be missing a touch of brightness, It seems as though it would be just fine in combination with the full range, though.

...And then there's always the HF level on the F-1x if it needs a dash more brightness...

On a related note, I added a custom EarCandy 212 to my rig today. Pics and review to follow. Let me just say 'it looks promising.'

Adam

poor_nigel · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2004, 05:22:02 PM »

Opps.

(Message edited by poor_nigel on October 04, 2004)

poor_nigel · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2004, 05:22:50 PM »

I am assuming that you have to play it too loud to put your ear close enough to each speaker to single out which one is making the fuzzy noise.

The fuzzy noise can come from the voice coil rubbing the sides of its gap. To test, simply remove the covers and gently push them in and see if you 'feel' or hear rubbing. If so, it is probably a misalligned spider, or something has gotten into the gap between the coil and the pole or rear structure. It probably not worth the trouble to fix - replace it. If they are pricey, say so, and I will tell you how to center them. It is not fun.

If none rub, it is probably time to get out the ohm meter and isolate and test each speaker. If it reads infinity - It is blown, replace it. If it reads far below the others, it has shorted across the gap, and might be rubbing, also. Replace it.

If these are pricey little speakers, think about reconing them. I am also assuming there is no crossover in these. If so, that could be the source.

I am assuming you switched channels of your amp, so it is not a blown channel there? Also, passive cones may have a voice coil on them, but they do not have magnets or gaps, so I am a little lost if you were refering that they could produce the fuzz sound. They would ness up if there were cracks in the cone or suspension, possible. A simple visual examination should pretty much cover those.

It is very hard to cover all the variables like this. It is kind of fun though. In person, you fiddle a bit, and poof, there is the problem and solution. You say there are five speakers in the fronts. What are the interesting looking middle ones?

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2004, 06:04:02 PM »

Thomas,
Thanks for your response. It will give me much to test and hopefully will isolate the problem. I am far from knowledgeable about the workings of this cabinet, or of speakers in general, so forgive me for any confusion with my previous post.

I did try switching channels on the amp, that is not the culprit. As for the ohm meter, would something like this do the trick?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25412&item=3843067995&rd=1
Got any better recommendations?

The cabs have only four speakers on the front, and the passive cone on the back. The panel in the center is the manufacturer's logo.

I am hoping the problem is something as simple as a blown speaker. I doubt that the 5 drivers are too painfully expensive, and with the deal I got on the cabs, they are worth a few bucks to get them running smoothly.

I'm a sucker for a good photo opportunity, at least when it comes to bass gear. Here's phase 5 of the rig:

Did I mention my neighbors HATE me?

Adam

poor_nigel · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2004, 06:32:48 PM »

A Multimeter has an ohm meter as one of its functions. I meant a multimeter, but ohm meter came out in the previous post. The one on eBay looks fine. Sears is having a sale and theirs have a year warranty, free fix/replacement if something goes wrong, and about the same price after shipping.

No money variation - Got a clock radio or transitor radio? Hook some wires from its speaker leads to each speaker and play it as loud as the radio will. Out with the fuzzy speaker, and in with a new one.

Are the five inch speakers foam surrounds are regular suspension, like your Epifani's have? If they are foam, Beyma makes a five inch that is kind of pricey, but nice - $79 each! If they are regular suspension, Emminence makes some close - six inch for $40 a piece. A little farther down the price list is a six inch Jensen guitar/bass speaker for @ $21. And then there is Radio Shack which will probably specialize in cheap four to six inch speakers. Depends on what you want to pay.

Are you playing a bass guitar through these or a guitar? I would think a bass guitar would eat them up fast. The 15 passive in the back sounds interesting. I wish I was there so I could play with these. Obviously, I am just another speaker freak/geek!

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2004, 07:27:54 PM »

I'll probably try out the clock radio trick, that sounds like a good way to go for this situation. If that doesn't get me there, maybe I'll pick up a multimeter.

I am not sure what foam surrounds or regular suspension are, they all just look round to me. Could you treat me like a newbie (because I am...) and advise me how to tell the difference?

The speaker that I opened *edit - uncovered* to get a better look has a clearly audible sound like paper scraping when I gently touch the front surface (voice coil?) on the right side, but no sound on the left side. I have not checked the other 3 speakers yet.

(Message edited by jagerphan84 on October 04, 2004)

poor_nigel · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2004, 08:02:44 PM »

Always push both sides at once. If you just push one side, you might damage the speaker. A paper scraping sound is bad. Probably a voice coil rub. Chances are the voice coil went out of true (No longer in a round enough shape to easily slip in and out of the round gap) or the spider is now off, and is not fun to fix. For the time spent, it is better to buy a new speaker, as it is time consuming and not really easy for a beginner.

The suspension is the rubberized material that surounds the cone and connects it to the speaker's frame. A foam type is a single rounded 'U' shaped circle. A regular syspension looks more like the folding paper part of an accordian and has three or four (Usually) 'sections' of folds. Like the other bass speakers you have in your picture will.

Question - The 15 passive cone has no wires coming out of it and hooking to anything? Just curious. I am on the east coast and it is time fer bed. Later.