Gigged with my new PLX1602 and F-1X

[davekoch]

I finally gigged with my new rig: QSC PLX1602 and F-1X. (I played a small room and a medium-large room.) Man, I love this rig. Everything you folks said and what I heard is true. It's wonderful. The response is so clean, distinct, and present. What I play is what I get. And the PLX1602 is definitely not too much power for my Eden 4x10T. What a joy to play. I've got a whole bunch of favorite new notes.  Thanks to all of you who help me through this transition - Mica, Dave Houck, Nate, Bill, Adam, Adriaan, Manfred, Hollis, Paul,  et. all. I'm a believer!!  
 
(Message edited by davekoch on December 20, 2004)

[dannobasso]

Congrats! Glad it worked out well for you. If you can grab an SF2, that will put you completely over the edge! I run plx1602, f1x-sf2 and 3402, f1x-sf2 into epi t310+t115 and acme lowb 210 + 410 and sometimes 2 bagend elf 18's get linked in.  
May you get to share your joy with many inthe new year.
Danno

[dnburgess]

Danno
 
Interesting you're running Acmes and Epifanis. I've A/B'd them with customers a few times and the consensus has been the Acmes sound better (at least with an Alembic bass). How do you think they compare?
 
David B.

[davekoch]

I haven't heard the Acme cabinets. How do they compare sound-wise to Eden, SWR, BagEnd, and the rest of the pro-line cabinets out there? (Not AccuGrove, etc. which are way out of my price limit). Are they just OK, or are they quite a bit better than some others? I know it's all subjective. Perhaps I've fallen into the they can't be that good because they don't cost as much and the you get what you pay for traps? Actually, my Eden 4x10T has been such a workhorse, and I always get compliments on my sound, so I haven't checked out the Acmes. What'cha think? Recommendations? They take a lot of power, right? Could an 8-ohm Acme 2x10 cabinet take 800 watts (bridging my PLX1602 with my Eden 4x10 500 watt, thus running at 4-ohms)?
 
I play active basses:
Modulus M-93 (sweet spot) 5-string EMG  
Modulus VJ with a J-Retro preamp, and Seymour Duncan Pro-Active pups
G&L ASAT fretless

[bsee]

How about Schroeder, anyone have experience with those?  Supposedly a cabinet like their 1210 does everything and then some in a very portable package.

[dnburgess]

Dave K., the Acme's are a very hi-fi sound - 41Hz to 22kHz +/- 3dB, -6dB @ 30.8Hz. Plenty of bottom end in relatively compact enclosures - only 3.5 cu.ft. Amazing for US$480!
 
The trade off is efficiency 93dB- they do require more power than many other speakers, but players that want an uncoloured sound love them.  
 
The Accugroove Tri210 by comparison is -6dB @ 35Hz, is 60% larger at 5.6cu.ft (although only 7lbs heavier than the Acme due, in part, to the use of neo drivers) but is a lot more efficient 103dB (and lists for $1349)
 
Although the B2 is rated at 350W, that is a continuous power rating. You are much more likely to damage any speaker by clipping an amp with too little power than by having too much power. The rule of thumb with Acme speakers is the amp should be at least twice as powerful as the speaker rating.
 
David B.

[David Houck]

Dave Koch; Acmes are great cabs.  The main reason they cost less than other high end cabs is that you buy them direct from the builder (in the US; Australia is a different situation ), thus you are essentially buying them at dealer cost.  One of the great things about Acmes is that they are relatively light weight; one person can easily carry a 210 from the car to the stage.  Another great thing about the Acmes is the low end.  Personally, I find that my Acme B-210 has a much nicer low end than my Eden 210-XLT (which is a lot heavier!).  The trade-off for the light weight and great low end is, as David mentioned, in efficiency; it takes a lot more power to get the same amount of sound out of the Acme as it does the Eden.  Then there is the high end.  If you like the high end sound of your Eden, you may not like the high end of the Acme.  As David mentioned, the Acme high end is uncolored.  The Edens, Bag Ends, SWRs and various others have what is generally described as sizzle.  Personally, I have found that I prefer the high end of my Edens and Bag End over my Acme.  What I really like is running an Eden, or Bag End, off one channel and the Acme off the other channel, both full range.  Depending on the application (room, band) I can get a very workable sound with those combinations.

[dannobasso]

Funny thing, sometimes my ear prefers one to the other. I tried the Acmes because of people on this site. You can Get them in 4 ohms. (Iprefer that) You can go out full range and set the amp to parallel on the 1602 and run without a problem. I realized long ago that my rig was really only my stage monitor anyway. I never play a place where my rig is the only source of bass. I have no idea what it sounds like in the house after the sound guy gets a hold of it. I'm just told to turn down all the time! I'm gonna shop endorsements soon so who knows what I'll end up with on stage. I just know it won't be Peavy! (no offense to users I just hate em')
Danno  

[davekoch]

dnburgess said:  
The rule of thumb with Acme speakers is the amp should be at least twice as powerful as the speaker rating.
 
With a one-cabinet configuration, I bridge my PLX1602 (1100 watts) into my 8ohm 500watt Eden 4x10T, and it sounds great. I already LOVE the headroom - now I get it.
 
With a two-cabinet configuration, I'd like to bridge into my Eden 4x10T with another 8ohm cabinet, resulting in 800watts a side. (Probably better than running Parallel/Stereo mode at 8ohms/300 watts per side?) Being the Acme 2x10 is rated at 350watts continuous, it would seem that the Acme 2x10 could handle 800 watts in bridge mode, right? I know my 8ohm 250watt Eden 2x10T couldn't handle 800watts in bridge mode.
 
Your thoughts?

[davekoch]

Danno said:
If you can grab an SF2, that will put you completely over the edge!
 
What does the SF2 really do or how does it sound (in laymens terms, remember, I'm a newbie)? I'm getting a great tone out of the F1X. Would it enhance my tone? I wonder how practical is would be in my situation? I'd hate to carry around something that I wouldn't use/need. Can someone sum it up, or link me to some threads?

[hollis]

Hi Dave,
 
It does everything except kiss you goodnight.  
 
It shapes your sounds.  It can be a high pass filter (allowing only frequencies above wherever you choose to get through), a low pass filter (frequencies your choice and below get through), or it can concentrate on a specific frequency as well. It's an amazing piece of equipment.  I run mine through an F1-X, and the possibilities are endless.  
 
I love it.  I use mine for bass and guitar.  It sounds great with both.  I hope this helps a little.  I'm sure others far more qualified will be along soon.....

[bsee]

Dave-
 
Do you own an Alembic bass?  If not, are there any dealers near you?  The simplest approximation would be to get your hands on a bass with Signature electronics (or better, Series electronics).  
 
Spin the filters fully clockwise and turn off the Q switches.  This should provide the raw sound of the bass.  Now, start playing with the dials and Q switches to find interesting tones.  This is an ultra-simple view of what an SF-2 can do to shape the tone of any instrument.  It is more versatile in that you have the Series-2 level of variable Q control, plus the ability to alter the filter type (which can't be done on any current in-bass package).
 
Let me say that I don't own one of these, but I would like to try one.  Analytically, I would expect it to be overkill if you already have the best electronics in your bass, but people who use them say otherwise.  The good news is that they always seem to be in demand, so if you find one on the used market, you should be able to buy it, try it, and then sell it if it doesn't work for you, all for the cost of shipping.
 
-Bob

[davekoch]

Hi Bob and Hollis,
I don't own an Alembic bass, and I'm not aware of a music store in the Minneapolis area that carries them. There must be one, though. ...all for the cost of shipping hmmmmm.....great idea.  
 
Dave
p.s. Man this is one great forum!  Happy Holidays!!