Author Topic: Cream 2005  (Read 501 times)

jalevinemd

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Cream 2005
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2006, 07:55:21 AM »
Thanks for the info, Dave. Have to admit, though, I've never heard of Korner or Bond.

kmh364

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Cream 2005
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2006, 11:12:05 AM »
Chuck:
 
My guitar instructor had the same thing to say about Cream when I lent him the RAH '05 disc (and then some! LOL!). I agree, but personally I'm happy just to have 'em playing again, old age be damned!

chuckc

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2006, 11:32:31 AM »
Kevin:
 
I don't disagree about having them playing again but it has almost become comedic how most of the older bands, with the possible exception of McCartney, have put a less than steller product out on today's market. Especially with the prices these acts are commanding. The Stones, Queen, Journey, The Who etal have made tremendous money shlocking through their same tired hits.  Call me jaded, but I think I prefer listening to my old albums and remembering the magic that was there when the music was new and fresh. I realize I'm probably in the minority even still having albums but hey the printing on the back is easier to read than on CD/DVD jewel cases. Let's see where did I leave my cane and reading glasses...........

David Houck

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2006, 12:03:00 PM »
Chuck; one example of an exception to your observation would be the Yes 35th Anniversary DVD, which in my opinion is wonderful.

chuckc

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2006, 12:23:59 PM »
Dave:
 
Ya know, I intentionally didn't mention Yes or Def Leppard and a couple of other oldies bands in my semi rant.  Everytime I have seen Yes in concert or on any of the current DVDs they never cease to amaze me at how true to their recordings, texture wise, and musicianship wise  they are able to sound.  And they have managed to stay that way regardless of whether it was Rick Wakeman, Geoff Downes or Tony Kaye on keyboards or Trevor Rabin or Steve Howe on guitar or even Alan White or Bill Bruford on drums. So I acquiesce to your exception, good point.

palembic

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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2006, 01:11:16 PM »
With the risk being considered a wise guy: don' t forget those old guys -apart of trying to make money- they are musicians and they LOVE to play. Alas: their reality of playing now cannot cope with our -by passing time cleaned up- memories of them play.
 
Paul TBO

prodigalson

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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2006, 06:09:48 PM »
interesting :0/

bracheen

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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2006, 03:23:16 AM »
Did I hear pathetic and Cream in the same sentence?  I've got to sit down.  True the sixty year old Cream doesn't have the same energy level and raw passion of the twenty year old Cream, or in Ginger's case 30.  But who among us does?  I was a ball of fire in 1968.  I do good to get out of bed without groaning now.
Cream, for me is the ultimate band.  Yes, I'm referring to the youngsters.  I was thrilled by just the thought of them getting up and playing together once again.  Hang the reasons.  It was a magical show for me with the lame Pressed Rat and Warthog, Toad, and any other flat spots.
Who else after an almost 40 year layoff could fill the RAH and MSG night after night?  
Makes me think of Ricky Nelson's Garden Party
 
Sam

jacko

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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2006, 05:34:09 AM »
Dave - slight hijack - did you ever get to see the Yessymphonic DVD?
 
Graeme

David Houck

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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2006, 07:11:41 AM »
Graeme; not yet.

chuckc

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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2006, 07:25:13 AM »
Sam :
 
I believe the line in Garden Party was If memories were all I played, I'd rather drive a truck.  I guess I would play memories for the amount of money they were paying Cream to do so. Doubt you could make enough money driving a truck unless it was an armored car and you got to keep everything inside.   The fact that they played to a multi-nite sold out MSG and RAH had very little to do with the product and more to do with the event and the players itself, which is OK with me I just choose not to buy into the price of the concert, the DVD, the T-shirt, the poster and on and on with the never ending merchandice that seems to accompany any concert now days.
 
I will reiterate my original contention that regardless of how many years ago it was that they first played together, the performance was not up to snuff.  If it truly was a benefit concert for Jack, then just say so and most of the criticism would be a moot point.  But don't make it out to be a reunion concert and then sleep walk through the event. It seems most of us here in the club are semi professional musicians though I'm pretty sure most of us have regular day jobs that help pay the bills and such. But regardless, when we perform for money our audience deserves the best show we can deliver.  They're not interested in how old we are, or what problems we have in our daily life, they want to be entertained for their hard earned money. I just didn't see the value for the money, of course I saw it for free on PBS, guess I did get my money's worth after all.

bracheen

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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2006, 09:20:54 AM »
Chuck
Please excuse my counter rant. Certainly everything was overpriced and overmarketed and the nearly $9000 Cream Reunion Warwick is just vulgar.  It all comes down to personal opinion and you or anyone else is just as entitled to one as me.  
I didn't have the opportunity to see them in their prime or maybe I would be more let down.  Having watched the DVD several times taking all into consideration I felt that I also got my moneys worth.  I didn't feel as though they were sleep walking at all with the possible exception of the aforementioned Toad.  But again that's getting into opinions.  BTW the Garden Party reference I was going for is that Ricky Nelson was booed for not being just like he was in his early years.  Probably a lame analogy at that.
Peace
 
Sam

bassman10096

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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2006, 09:22:41 AM »
I guess it depends how seriously you take your expectations of other musicians.  Having thought the remember that old band that used to be so exciting (and inspirational) revival thing through more than once, I guess my own expectations have mellowed a lot.  I face audience expectations regularly and, regardless of what they deserve they get what they get and I face the consequences of whether they want to continue coming to hear (not to imply that I don't pay close attention to the marketability of the music I spend my time playing - I do).  It's just not that personal.  
 
When I first heard of the Cream reunion, after I got done cringing at how it could not and would not live up to any expectations based on what happened between 38 and 40 years back, I decided I would check it out anyway (on PBS, as it wasn't worth more than that to me).  What I found was, objectively, pretty much the same performances we all saw.  However, I think I fell into the more charitable, or maybe less naive camp:
 
1.  They are old.  Period.  The amount of originality to what they did was very very limited.  But I've been listening to Clapton do that for years.  Personally, it's good to see that Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker (the many times heralded dead speed freak) are looking as good as they are.  I don't admire any of the three except for their acheivements (however distant they may be in the past), but I'm not much into celebrities.
2.  I was curious how much each could or would be interested in putting out.  Not much, compared to my fondest hope, but not a big dissapointment - people rarely live up to other folks expectations.  What I did see was a very few glimmers of challenge between them.  Frankly, I wasn't sure there'd be any, so I was modestly happy about that.
3.  I wanted to see if there was still anything left to learn from these guys that I hadn't heard already.  In some respects, I thought yes.  However, it wasn't anything to do with being the Cream of old.  Glad I didn't all for that one... Nonetheless, there were some bits and thoughts I enjoyed hearing.
 
Personally, I don't have a big problem with celebrities cashing in on their laurels.  I can't say I'd necessarily do differently, given the same position and opportunity.  I just hate the smell of sour grapes.  What makes any of us so naive as to expect these guys would somehow (or for some reason) do this reunion the way we would most have appreciated it.  It just surprises me that it seems surprising.
 
As to the Garden Party references, I remember talking to my sister late the evening of that MSG concert, which she had just returned from.  Rick Nelson was booked to play a gig that was billed as an evening of old rock and roll.  Why didn't anyone sympathize with the audience, who, after waiting 45 min for Nelson to get his sound together, were treated to Ricky refusing to play what was billed?  The whole Garden Party discussion, controversy, song, etc. was no more than a fairly cynical marketing stunt.  There was no way Ricky Nelson was going to gain attention for his new career direction as easily as to bash old R&R (which, as many will recall, was yet to be recognized as hip) and whine that no one appreciated his art.  Shrewd.    
 
Bill
 
(Message edited by bassman10096 on April 20, 2006)
 
(Message edited by bassman10096 on April 20, 2006)

olieoliver

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Cream 2005
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2006, 09:40:02 AM »
I think expectations are relevant to each person. Are you expecting to see the most skillful or the most soulful or the fastest....
I personally think Clapton is a much cleaner, smoother guitar player now than he was in the 60's and 70's, but does than make him better? I think not, just differant. Hendix, one of the greatest, was also very sloppy on a lot of his solos, but had some of the most soulful solos too. Vai, Satriani, Van Halen are all speed demons and very clean and smooth but all 3 pale in comparison to SRV's soul, groove and ability to make a guitar express emotion, i.e. LENNY.
I am not trying to argue which is better, as is with all things, depends on who you ask. All are good, just differant.

chuckc

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Cream 2005
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2006, 10:02:27 AM »
All:
 
I personally can respect and do appreciate the alternative views and feedback.  It is refreshing to have a good debate that allows different views to be expressed yet maintains the level of respect these posts have displayed.  
 
Peace to all
 
Chuck