Author Topic: Weather Report!  (Read 440 times)

keith_h

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Weather Report!
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 05:56:39 AM »
They hit their full strength 20 (6.5 meters) or so feet in front of the cabinet. Their design was to allow a long enough signal path for the low frequency waves to fully develop at a shorter distance than a front loaded speaker. It's been a long time so I don't remember all of the physics. I do recall they were supposed to be more efficient at reproducing low frequencies.  
 
I never had any problem hearing. I also used two single 15 JBL's driven by a Yamaha head to handle the higher end and add some brightness.      
 
Keith

811952

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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 07:13:35 AM »
My second real amp was the 370/301 combo, and sometimes I use one or two Carvin 18s in folded horn cabinets.  18s in folded horns make getting Jaco's tone relatively easy.  That honky punch with strange stifled ambience is what you get when you stand close and/or close-mic it, using mostly bridge pickup and plucking hard near the bridge.  Playing through them (big, old folded horns) can be inspirational.  Front loaded speaker cabinets can't recreate it.  If you've never played through one, it is something worth checking out, imho..
 
John

811952

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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 07:20:08 AM »
As for the reversed keyboard, back in the day the Rhodes Chroma Polaris was advertised to have that as a factory preset, as JZ used.  I have one of those sitting in the basement right now (it does duty making the rumble for my midi bass pedals), and in the years my little brother owned it (he bought it new) he says he could never get his to do it.  
 
John (the collector/accumulator of old stuff)

bigredbass

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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 09:13:50 AM »
Adriaan, it all went past you!!  The rest of the band was just getting broiled but you couldn't hear yourself.  You NEVER needed a direct box in any reasonably sized room, and if the room even thought it had a standing wave in it somewhere, you'd sure as hell find it with those rigs.
 
I'll never forget I made a biamp rig one time using a Peavey folded 18 (the size of Coke machine, like they all were).  I'm not much good at hearing 'fast' amps or speakers, etc.  But you could sure hear this:  Hit a note, hear the top pass NOW then the bottom would fill in kinda like a bathtub filling up behind it!
 
Like Keith said, you really needed some front-loaded cabinets in tandem to get a little articulation.  
 
But remember, this is back in the days when a 300 watt amp was a rare and wondrous thing.  The idea was that the higher efficiency of the W-bins was needed, as you were down on horsepower to start with.  This is a world where a Shure head and a couple of Voic-of-the-Theatres was the living end for a high-tech PA, and a Dual Showman was too much amp for most gigs.
 
One of my childhood heroes (Russell Fontana, bassist with Louisiana's Boogie Kings) got a new rig in the early 80's:  The then-new IVP preamp, CS800 power, biamped into JBL Cabarets, 118 with a 210 on top.  He brought it back for a refund!
He had NEVER heard himself that well, had NEVER been able to drown out the guitar players at will.  Could NOT dig it.  Went back to his 360s.
When you talk about what fellas my age have seen, never underestimate the seismic shift in instruments and amps.
 
J o e y

olieoliver

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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 09:24:29 AM »
Joey hit the nail on the head. The low end sound waves are so long that they just pass right by you and the guy 15 ft out, (and 30, 45,...) gets hammered with bass. Those folded horn cabs exagerated that.  
When Hartke came out with their 4x10 cabs I fell in love with 'em. Now I won't run a rig with out at least 2 tens. I still like the 15 & 18 front loaded cabs, but use them in conjunction with the tens.

bigredbass

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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 11:55:37 AM »
But Olie, is it what we're used to, or is there something in the 15/18s that's not in 10s?
 
I'm running my Metro (2-10s + horn) atop an Eden D115XLT (single 15 with horn).  Over and over, the Edenites said THE ticket was to use a 210XLT or XST or a 410XLT/XST aa an extension cab for the Metro.  I wore both out at the store before getting the 15, and for the life of me, the 210 and 410 just sounded like more of the same.  I put the 115 under it and BOOM, I was home.
 
I realize there's mucho physics involved here.  And I would not want to go back to only 15s.  But together, this stack just floats my boat, albeit with the horn in the 15 bin turned off.
 
J o e y

olieoliver

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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 12:09:58 PM »
I agree Joey, I used my Metro atop an AMpeg 1-18 cab and got a monster sound. Then started having trouble with the Metro so it's now in my practice room. My main rig is an SWR 750 2x10 w horm amd 1x15 w horn. And it smokes. My SWR is pre Fender too.

keith_h

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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 12:33:46 PM »
Joey & Olie,
I  still have my 15 JBL's and think they are the best sounding of all my speakers. I will couple them with a 2X10 w/horn and it is really sweet. For the K140's I think it relates to their design of emphasizing the upper mid's.  Plus they have pretty decent mechanical response time when compared to a larger speaker. It all makes for a tighter sound.  This all came up when I was discussing possible replacement speakers with JBL engineering a few months back.      
 
Keith

bigredbass

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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2006, 02:44:52 PM »
Geez, K Series JBLs . . . all these kids don't know what they missed!  
 
Well, Keith, NEXT time you talk to these Harmon-era JBL technogeeks, PUH-LEEZE get them to reissue the Cabaret bins!!  FABulous little cabinets that were way ahead of their time.
 
J o e y

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2006, 04:53:29 PM »
Dave, thanks again for sharing more INCREDIBLE footage of PRIME vintage fusion.
 
Uh... I don't wanna push my luck... but...
 
seein' on howz ya've given us prime footage of 2 out of the big 3...
 
Could'ja possibly post any similar MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA footage (1st and/or second incarnations)!  I'd sure love to see it, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
 
Thanks again, what a treat!!!

David Houck

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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2006, 05:42:01 PM »
Mahavishnu Orchestra
 
Just to be clear, the only things I'm actually sharing are links.

David Houck

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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2006, 05:45:16 PM »
Adam; you can purchase the Weather Report DVD here.

2400wattman

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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2006, 10:27:52 PM »
Thanks Dave!

jacko

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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 04:08:29 AM »
$54.99! Evena at current exchange rates that's alot for a DVD. Anyone want to send me one as a gift? ;-)
 
Graeme

jacko

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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2006, 04:08:41 AM »
$54.99! Even at current exchange rates that's alot for a DVD. Anyone want to send me one as a gift? ;-)
 
Graeme