Author Topic: General Question on Fretless basses (Read 425 times)

chuckc · « **on:** June 20, 2006, 08:26:52 AM »

I am considering converting a Fender Jazz bass to a fretless with the addition of a Warmouth fretless neck. In examining the specs on their website they offer two versions. One is unlined with side markers only, while the other has ghost frets and inlayed poition markers. The unlined version states that the position markers fall where the fret would normally be, though the ghost fret markers are just like a regular fret board in terms of position. I have never played a true fretless only converted versions. Is it normal and do Alembics have the position markers on unlined fret boards aligned in a similar fashion?

olieoliver · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2006, 08:33:15 AM »

I am not sure about Alembic, but I have a 79 Music Man fretless and it has the side markers where the fret would normaly be. I would assume all fretless (that don't have the fret lines) are this way.

wayne · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:10:51 AM »

Yes, Alembic basses built as fretless will have the postion markers where the frets would have been. (At least every one that I've seen.) (Unless you request something different - they are the ultimate in custom, right?)

A way to think about it: The position markers are to help you see where to put your finger. On a fretTED bass, you put your finger between the frets. On a fretLESS bass, your finger essentially becomes the fret, therefore the position marker needs to be aligned where the fret would have been had it been there but wasn't because it's not.

(Sorry, got carried away there for a minute....)

C-Ya...........wayne

chuckc · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:25:55 AM »

Thanks Wayne, I understood the logic but not the mechanics. I imagine it is purely a matter of practice with a fretless to get used to the positioning. Oh boy, a new challenge.

olieoliver · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:31:35 AM »

Charles, if you've never played a fretless before the neck with the fretlines on the fret board is easiest to master. The dots on the top are great for the low E but are a little miss leading on the higher strings due to the angle at which you look at the neck. Especialy if you sling your bass up high like I do.
Practice and a good ear are whats needed on fretless.

chuckc · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:55:42 AM »

Well Olie, I have the practice regime down pretty well, but residual hearing loss (too many years playing drums in small clubs and rehearsal studios) has noticeably affected my ability to audibly hear the difference between Bb and B and several other lower bass notes, so I guess I'll just need to work on my technique to make the fretless endeavor work out. Thanks

spliffy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:41:13 AM »

I have both, and I found it easiest to learn how to play with ghost markers. This was especially helpful since my main fretted bass and the fretless had different neck lengths.
Some people will tell you that if you go fretless then do not have any lines because you have to learn by ear, but IMHO, if it helps you learn, then all the power to you and forget what anyone else thinks.
When I do pick up a fretless I still favour the cheaper fretless I bought (entry level Yamaha), because it feels easier to play than my Godin!
Good luck and just stick with it. then post sound clips...

Al

chuckc · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:01:54 AM »

Well this was an interesting approach I found on the Custom Archives. This kinda brings it all into focus. Thanks for everyones input.

http://www.alembic.com/info/FC_tiger.html

olieoliver · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:10:33 AM »

I played nothing but fretless from 79 to about 90 and my main work was with a Heavy Metal band. Not too many cats played metal on a fretless.
In fact I pulled my Music Man out last week. Restrung it cleaned it up and played it for about 5 hours straight.
I the fret board need to be replaced on it. I know I shouldn't have but I played round wound strings on it for years. It now has round wound wounds. LOL
Anyone have any suggestions as to who to send it to.

keith_h · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:14:06 PM »

chuckc: Well this was an interesting approach I found on the Custom Archives. This kinda brings it all into focus. Thanks for everyones input.

I did the same thing on my fretless Orion (April FCOTM). The sidelines don't detract from the fretboard but do give me a quick reference if I get lost. I also opted for the offset positon markers.

Keith

chuckc · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:11:31 PM »

As I was sitting here reading all the feedback and reviewing some of the fretless customs such as Keith's I had a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious). I remember from years ago as a hapless music major that the mandolin was developed to give violin and viola players a plucked instrument to play. Though I don't recall ever seeing a violin with frets or position markers I have never seen a fretless mandolin either. It certainly gives me a new found respect for players who have mastered the violin/mandolin concept like Ricky Skaggs, since they have to depend entirely on hand position to achieve the correct notes on the violin and then try to get their fingers between those itty bitty frets on the mandolin. Think I'll just stick to being a below average bass player at this point.

rami · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:51:52 PM »

I personally prefer unlined fretless Basses because with a lined fretless, most manufacturers like Fender put the side dots along the fretline rather than between the fretlines as on a fretted Bass. I find that throws me off rather than help. If I'm to look at a simulation of a fretted neck, why not leave the side dots as on a fretted Bass? At least with an unlined fretless you only have one point of reference rather than two conflicting ones. It's true that when I play my fretted Bass that I actually play right on the frets rather than between them, so the side dots are always a little to the left of where I place my fingers. That's where I get messed up with lined fretless Basses.
Fender's Jaco signature Bass has this inconsistency. It has dots on the fingerboard in the correct position, but the side dots are right on the fretlines. They should at least make it similar to Jaco's actual de-fretted fretless. Leave the side dots BETWEEN the fretlines, or get rid of the fretlines completely!

My 2 cents

FC Bass · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2006, 01:06:34 AM »

I totally agree with olieoliver about the miss leading on the higher strings due to the angle at which you look at the neck. I've got a Gibson ripper fretless (check www.fcbass.tk for pictures)with tiny dot markers on the side only, the dot markers are placed where the normal markers would be (between frets)
I think the best way of playing fretless basses is with yer eyes closed, use yer humble ears!
N.B. Rami, your basses are phenomenal!

(Message edited by fc_spoiler on June 21, 2006)

(Message edited by fc_spoiler on June 21, 2006)

jacko · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:31:00 AM »

Chuck.
When I got my fretless rogue last year, I ordered it as lined fretless which I'm still very happy with. I could have had it with the inlayed maple markers or purely with the side dots. Another option i was given was the positioning of the normal side dots - 3, 5 , 7, 9, 12 etc. I opted for the normal 'fretted' positions but could have had them lined up with the fret positions.
I've been playing fretless long enough to be able to watch the audience most of the time but it's nice to have some frame of reference now and again. Your best bet would be to try a few variations to see which you prefer before you splash out on a new neck.

Graeme

88persuader · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2006, 10:07:02 PM »

I've played fretless for many years now and dislike the fake fret marks on some fretless necks. I'm in the dots where the fret is and nothing on the front of the neck Camp. To me it's totally natural that way. When i play a fretless neck with the dots BEFORE the fret position and fake frets on the neck it totally screws me up. I've talked with other bass players who feet totally opposite from me, who can only play fretless basses WITH fake fret marks. So i guess there are players for both type of necks. You'll be the only who can decide which is right for you. BUT that being said, my personal feeling is fretless is the ONLY way to go if you want to make the bass SING. However Fretless is NOT to good for rock or thumb/finger popping styles. So that's another factor to consider ... what type of style player are you? If you're playing Jazz, R&B and stuff like that fretless is awesome. If you're playing metal, hard rock or hard funk you're probably better off with frets. ORRRRRRR do what I've done, get several of each! :-)