Author Topic: Question Time Again: "Looper" Stompboxes? (Read 207 times)

kmh364 · « **on:** September 05, 2006, 10:17:20 AM »

As I mentioned previously in another thread, I'm still looking for a device that I can record chord rhythmns and/or melody lines while improvising over the top of same. I've got a 4-track Tascam cassette machine, but it's a PITA to use. Digital versions are much more expensive, but forego the hassle of tape.

My guitar instructor recommended a loop device like the Digitech JamMan or the Boss (Roland) RC-20XL (or the larger, more expensive Boss RC-50). You can record a rhythmn, change the tempo (while leaving the pitch unaltered) and improvise over the top. Does anybody have any experience with either? Harmony Central reviews of either unit are all over the place.

Apparently, a self-contained, multi-powered, non-tape multi-track machine doesn't exist. A phrase looper appears to be the easiest thing to use for my practice sessions.

Comments?

Cheers,

Kevin

(Message edited by kmh364 on September 05, 2006)

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2006, 01:50:34 PM »

I own a Zvex lo-fi loop junky, and depending on your expectations, it is a wonderful box. As the name implies, the sound reproduction is lo-fidelity, with all sorts of interesting artifacts and a phonograph-like hiss due to the unusual nature of the analog recording circuit. (Not an overwhelming amount, but it does add character). I bought mine to do just what you said, and it suits me great. You can check out a demo video and get a much better description at:

http://zvex.com/junky.html

hb3 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2006, 03:29:11 PM »

Digitech BNX3. Now out of production. Stomp-box looping with digital recorder and effects bank. I recorded this stuff on the fly:

http://hb3.com/mp3/popcorn.mp3

http://hb3.com/mp3/moroccan.mp3

http://hb3.com/mp3/tidepool.mp3

Though in some cases added new drum parts later (it's got a basic drum machine, though).

In my experience you can loop about four things on top of each other until it becomes mush, but up until that point it's pretty fun, and useful too.

David Houck · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2006, 07:12:54 PM »

I don't know if this is what you are talking about, but my guitar player has a Boomerang. He loves it. He uses it often when practicing; he finds it very helpful in deciphering licks off of CD's.

bsee · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2006, 08:12:48 PM »

We had a get together for an internet bass site here in MA a couple weeks ago. Mike Dimin, a teaching/touring pro who lives about a hundred miles away, attended and gave a mini-clinic. He uses a Boomerang for his show, and it was quite impressive for solo bass performance. I don't think it allows much in the way of tempo adjustment and such, though.

tom_z · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2006, 11:35:45 PM »

Kevin - I have a Boss RC-20XL. It's great for practicing in the way you mentioned. Lay down some chords, and maybe bass line, then solo over it. I have seen people use these on stage - the sound quality is okay - can get muddy if you pile up too many layers.

You can plug in a CD player to record tracks, then play over them. They can be slowed down using a tap tempo - but it sounds pretty bad. I guess if you're trying to copy some licks and can't get your hands on some notation or tabs it might be one way to go.

It's really simple for practicing - plug in and go. It would be nice if it had an integrated tuner and some decent built-in drum beats - it has a rhythm guide that is no more than a loud metronome (which, thankfully, can be shut off). It's great for the price.

Peace
Tom

reinier · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2006, 05:20:48 AM »

I have a Boss RC-20XL too and Tom's comments are right on the mark.

If you use full range amplification on stage I find it not easy to find the balance between keeping your Alembic dynamics and the RC's noise level.

The time stretch function is useable if you keep the drop in tempo reasonable (an expensive computer program like Wavelab also start sounding funny when you go below half the speed).

At the end of the day: it's great fun for a great price.

Take care, Reinier

NB: wasn't the Jamman a (discontinued) Lexicon product? I believe it's what Victor Wooten uses (in a very inspiring way!)

tom_z · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2006, 07:57:37 AM »

Reinier, you're right. The rack unit that Victor uses was produced by Lexicon. Digitech is now producing a JamMan looper that looks very much like the Boss RC-20XL, but with removable, expandable storage disc (compact flash, I believe) and a few other differences including a higher price tag.

FWIW, it was a Victor Wooten performance a couple years ago that got me interested in picking up a looper.

Peace
Tom

eligilam · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2006, 07:41:38 PM »

I use the Boomerang. It's pretty sweet...a party in a box. Makes for hours of playing pleasure. It was about $300, and well worth it.

will d.

kmh364 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2006, 05:12:55 AM »

Thanks guys for all the help. In the end, price made the difference: I went with the Boss for $225 delivered from GGuitars. The Digitech was $50-$75 more, but their quality/reliability is far from great. The Boomerang looks great, and is made in the US (a big plus for me), but at $600MSRP ($429 @ GC), it's a little too expensive for what I need it for.

BTW, ask and ye shall receive. There actually is a PALM-sized multi-powered digital 4-track recorder that uses cheap SD memory cards, has a built-in mic/tuner, built in effects & drum Machine, USB port, MP-3 player, etc. It's brand-new and called the MICRO BR. It's designed for guitarists/bassists and fits in a gig bag POCKET! Hell, all it needs is a speaker and it's completely self contained (it has a phones output) all for $300MSRP ($229 delivered everywhere)! Boss's site has an interactive demo...ck it out here:

http://www.bossus.com/?pg=1&tmp=157

Think I'm gonna get me one of those too...that way, I can record my lessons and send 'em to the looper for improv practice!

Cheers,

Kevin

hb3 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2006, 06:39:01 AM »

BTW, ask and ye shall receive. There actually is a PALM-sized multi-powered digital 4-track recorder that uses cheap SD memory cards, has a built-in mic/tuner, built in effects & drum Machine, USB port, MP-3 player, etc. It's brand-new and called the MICRO BR. It's designed for guitarists/bassists and fits in a gig bag POCKET! Hell, all it needs is a speaker and it's completely self contained (it has a phones output) all for $300MSRP ($229 delivered everywhere)!

Amazing. Pretty soon we'll just have this stuff implanted in our skulls.

lbpesq · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2006, 06:42:36 AM »

Pretty soon we'll just have this stuff implanted in our skulls.

Dude, haven't they told you?

Bill, tgo

kmh364 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2006, 11:47:57 AM »

Now that I bought, Boss has a new, cheaper single-width/pedal Loop Station model(RC-2)! Price/availability is TBD.

FWIW, those MicroBR recorders are on order as well.

jack · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2006, 11:59:19 AM »

Dude, haven't they told you?

Good one Bill.

hb3 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2006, 02:27:20 PM »

The human biometric amplification system. The only question is, Where do you stick the guitar cable?